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Author Topic: Some questions that come up on another read through of the book  (Read 1828 times)
petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #30 on: 05 May 2017, 11:06:50 PM »

Now in all honesty, for me the lumbering rule may just be removed all togheter, and the speeds reset to BKC  II standard.

Let's take a pak 40 for example.

In BKC II it had a move of 5 .

In BKC III it has a move of 10


So to reposition a pak 40 10 cm away in BKC II you needed 4 actions

deploy action to pack it up
2 move actions to move 2x5
deploy action to get it ready to fire

In BKC II it needs 3 turns

deploy action to pack it up, it's turn is over (a deploy action is a move action so triggers lumbering)
move action to move 10 cm, it's turn is over (it moved, so lumbering kicks in,and it can't deploy anymore because that is also a move action)
deploy action to set it up again.

Now arguably, the sequence in BKC II could be done in one turn or in more depending on the command rolls, but the same goes for the BKC III example. If you miss any command roll for any of the 3 actions you are looking at a 4 turn-process of shifting a gun 10 cm. That does not make the game simpler, it just makes it drag on.

Of course, that does explain the massive point reduction from 105 to 25!
« Last Edit: 05 May 2017, 11:09:16 PM by petercooman » Logged
simmo
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« Reply #31 on: 05 May 2017, 11:08:01 PM »

What is the procedure for folks who bought a copy at Salute to get the future revised copy?

Sorry to read there seems to be so many problems with the rules. One issue I noted is with the off table support would seem to suggest that AFVs in the open would be hit on a 456! In BKCII it was 6. The rules mention a Fixed target Numbers but doesn't give any examples.

Martyn S

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Leon
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« Reply #32 on: 06 May 2017, 12:33:57 AM »

What is the procedure for folks who bought a copy at Salute to get the future revised copy?

Once we've got them reprinted, you'd need to send the old copy back to us and we'd exchange it for a new one.  Unfortunately we'd need to do that to prove the purchase, otherwise we'd get a load of people claiming they bought one just to get a free copy.  We'd reimburse you the shipping costs as well.
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petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #33 on: 06 May 2017, 12:36:14 AM »

Can we just straight up buy a new one as well Leon? I didn't vote for a reprint, don't feel like you guys owe me that  Smiley
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Leon
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« Reply #34 on: 06 May 2017, 12:47:47 AM »

Can we just straight up buy a new one as well Leon? I didn't vote for a reprint, don't feel like you guys owe me that  Smiley

I think we'd prefer to send everyone a new copy for free and then everyone gets treated the same.  When the time comes we can chat to people individually if they want to collect it a show, or want us to put it in with a regular figure order, etc.
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patwarg
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« Reply #35 on: 06 May 2017, 09:20:48 AM »

Very glad to see the repy from Leon that there is a plan in place to look at all the issues that have been raised.

The question has been raised about the small group that have fed back. Maybe my experience is typical so here goes.

I had heard from others that the rules were to be produced for Salute and several of us went to the show. 3 of them bought hard copies and because I have made a decision to go electronic I bought the pdf. Of the 4 copies that I know of I am the only one who has read and played with them. As soon as I did so there were questions and I then joined the forum. I have just raised a few issues but would be quite happy to make a list of all the issues I have come across.

Having said that I like the basic concept of the rules and am having a game with another person who bought the rules next Wednesday. The purpose of that is so that we can come to a conclusion on a way forward.

What I draw from this is that the rules basic concept is fine but there are major issues with a lot of good will to fix them.  Also, I would suggest that this forum is a good representation of people who have taken the time to explore the rules. You will never get all the purchasers to contribute. After all just think of all those rules we all have that we have never really played with.
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petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #36 on: 06 May 2017, 09:39:21 AM »

. After all just think of all those rules we all have that we have never really played with.

Don't go there, my wife could read this!

One of the big improvements of pdf copies I believe. Cost less to eplore, and don't clutter the house if they don't work out.
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toxicpixie
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« Reply #37 on: 06 May 2017, 09:59:00 AM »

I think we'd prefer to send everyone a new copy for free and then everyone gets treated the same.  When the time comes we can chat to people individually if they want to collect it a show, or want us to put it in with a regular figure order, etc.

That's very (overly?) generous! I'd suggest a free PDF with option for a discount on a physical copy - at the least, cover the costs of reprinting (as much as is reasonable - if your cost to print is 24 on a 25 rule book a quid discount is not much use to the punter!). That way you should retain goodwill, assuage the early adopters who feel burnt, and not go bust...

I have no idea if business insurance would cover this?!
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petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #38 on: 06 May 2017, 10:44:52 AM »

As I said, I don't feel pendraken owes me a new book. I got this one at pre order price.

That means I got a discount for getting the rules before there would be reviews and opinions. The discount means you get a better price for a 'jump in the dark' so to speak. If I don't like em,tough luck. Should have waited for initial impressions and paid the full price then.

Also I paid that money for a printed book, shipped to my door. And guess what, I got that. Transaction done for my part.

It's very generous of pendraken to do what they are willing to do. But I wouldn't like this to set a precedent. Before you know you get al kinds of crazy demands for refunds on all kind of things.

Just a note. That's  my personal opinion of course, and i don't want to meddle in Leon and dave's bussiness!! Their company not mine!

« Last Edit: 06 May 2017, 12:06:29 PM by petercooman » Logged
ronan
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« Reply #39 on: 06 May 2017, 12:03:21 PM »

Something's strange here  Undecided  : I AGAIN agree with Peter !  Grin
 Wink
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petercooman
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Posts: 4280


Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #40 on: 06 May 2017, 12:06:54 PM »

Something's strange here  :-  : I AGAIN agree with Peter !  Grin
 Wink

not strange, sensible  Tongue
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OldenBUA
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« Reply #41 on: 06 May 2017, 12:18:39 PM »

I don't think it's true that lumbering means you can't deploy/mount/dismount in the same move. If you look on page 24 they are all seperate actions. Lumbering only means no two (tactical) move actions.
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petercooman
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Blessed is the mind too small for doubt


« Reply #42 on: 06 May 2017, 12:45:45 PM »

I don't think it's true that lumbering means you can't deploy/mount/dismount in the same move. If you look on page 24 they are all seperate actions. Lumbering only means no two (tactical) move actions.

p67
LUMBERING
May only take one move action each turn.

p14
Move actions
-assault move
-support move
-tactical move
-mount/dismount
-deploy


Now ifthe ability on page 67 read "tactical move action" i would agree.
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Dr Dave
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« Reply #43 on: 06 May 2017, 12:59:23 PM »

If I play a game with my Matilda regt. I should get say 1.5 orders of every turn. With a move of 15, to simply cross a 4ft table would take my boys about 12 turns and they'd probably not fire during any of those turns. Now if the objective is to cross and not fire I'm ok. But any manoeuvring or need to shoot back might mean that I'm faced by a very long (unplayable) game. A pal of mine is setting up the counter attack at Arras in a few weeks and he can't use these rules.

I notice that Matildas are lumbering but Churchills, Crocodiles and Valentines aren't - despite all having the same (near as damn it) top speed.

"Lumbering", as it stands, is daft. Lumbering was already in BKCII - "manhandled guns can only move once"

Applying it to already low cv, slow vehicles is, to put it mildly, going to break the game.
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Astronomican
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« Reply #44 on: 06 May 2017, 02:23:07 PM »

We've had a ton of emails from people wanting to help and get this back on track, so we're going to assemble a group of folks (mainly from the original BKC playtest group, plus some additions)

Also make sure that one person doesn't control the rules, otherwise you'd end up with a re-run of the current BKCIII debarcle.

An "authoring team" is far better than a one-man band!
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