Important Announcement about BKC-III - Please Read

[williamb]

Finally read through the rules and decided on number four.   I agree with a lot of what Nick Harwood and weredoomed2003 have posted.  It appears that the person who was given the rewrite of the rules has failed to do what should have been done.   There are some changes that might have been good, but there are too many unnecessary changes.   The scenarios lack force ratios.  Army lists are missing items.  Doctrine and formation are gone.   Field defenses are free!?!?!?  I regret pre-ordering the rules.  If I had seen what has been posted before deciding I would not have bought them.  While I would like to see CWC and FWC redone so that the stats and lists are similar to what is in BKCII I am not going to pre-order them.

[sjb1001]

I think we really need to let Leon and the team concentrate on the issue at hand which they are doing admirably and not start putting a cloud of doom over CWC-II before the work has started.

[T13A]

Hi

I just wanted to say thank you to Nik for his insight above into what has been going on with regard to BKC-II/BKC-III and just say that I agree with everything he said. In particular:

"As I said to you a while ago, I think the author made a load of changes that weren't necessary - and (IMNSHO) has taken a well-tested & respected ruleset backed by a well-tested & respected company (that's you BTW) and used that as a platform to get 'his' rules published. I frankly think that this is f**king disgraceful and that he's taken a serious liberty here - for his own vanity? Who knows... The rules are a long way away from where they were - and the lists (and, again, I am *so* sorry I didn't give these attention) are bonkers going from opinion from folks who are *way* more knowledgeable than I".

Personally, as I have said elsewhere, I think the problem is more than the mistakes, omissions etc. in the rule book and lists but with the 'new' rules themselves. I would suggest this is backed up by the people saying that they will not use/cannot use BKC-III and will carry on using BKC-II (myself included).

Perhaps a way forward would be to go back to BKC-II and simply check out what really needed changing and starting again. If you agree with Nik (as I do) then this might not be as onerous as it sounds.

For my part, and again as I have said elsewhere, I was just looking for a bit clearer explanation in the new rule book about:

•   visibility and concealed troops (and judging from an answer to a previous post of mine, clearer explanations are readily available somewhere already)

•   Fighting in Built-Up areas

And just to emphasis, I do not think the rules need changing or to be made 'simpler', (I really do not think you could make any worth while set of WWII rules simpler than BKC-II, if you did they would become 'Fantasy' rules (IMHO)), just clearer explanations as to how the rules actually work.

If I was sure that was what was going to happen, I for one would happily put down the money I have spent on BKC-III to 'experience' and pay Pendraken again for BKC-IV or what ever you chose to call it.

Just my tuppence worth (or is it sixpence worth by now)?

Cheers Paul

[Jimbo94]

The publication of BKCIII had really rekindled my interest in WW2 gaming and as I had armies ready to use from BKCII I would be able to get straight on and start playing after a quick read of the new rules.

I was just about to purchase them when I started to read this forum and held off as a result.
Given the general impression created it looks like the author has managed to make a excellent set of core principles largely unworkable.

Given this the only real solution is to carry on with BKCII and wait for a complete re write.

Good news for me is I am getting the Finns and Russians out for the first winter war game for about 5 years so in some ways that is still a positive outcome of all this.

[Gwydion]

First, I just want to say thanks to Leon for the way he handled this, the options he gave me in his email and the speed with which he resolved my reply.

Secondly, I will continue to support Pendraken and play CWC and BKC II and look forward to revised versions of both.

That is the point though - I want revised versions of sets of rules that work in a unique way amongst WWII and Modern sets. I don't want a new style of rules, I want the (small) errors in BKCII correcting, the clarifications and tweaks from players over the years incorporating in an integrated format and updated lists in accord with those clarifications and changes.

I voted for a new print version because as far as I can see a pdf of the lists isn't going to help the mistakes and unworkable changes in the rules.

If cost is a problem, and I can see it might be under the circumstances, I would rather have a printed book of rules with pdf lists.

My preferred option though is the full package I was looking forward to.

Best wishes

[OldenBUA]

I hadn't played BKC for some time, but after reading some of the first reviews ordered the new version. Then, before I got the new book, the flurry of posts with questions, outcries and shock started. So I was not sure what to expect. Still haven't read the whole book, but my first impressions, for what they are worth.

The book has a good layout and good production values. Most of the basic things are still in there. But a lot of things have been changed. There are many new features, and some old ones that have been rewritten. But the overall impression I get is that little thought has gone into how everything fits together. How many playtest games have been done? By the author? Or by the others that helped out?

And I have no idea what happened to the army lists​. Too many errors, typos and omissions, and point values that make no sense in some cases.

All this doesn't mean the end of the world of course. A few pages of errata and clarifications should sort out most of the problems. For the lists, a comprehensive review, including a cross check to make sure they match across all the lists and make sense needs to be done. So I voted for pdf lists.

And let's be fair, there are some good ideas in the book. But I cannot fathom WHY some things have been changed that did not need changing.

Alex

[chris stringer]

I would be happy with a revised PDF of the army lists and rules errata in due course...I think Pendraken is handling this problem very well!

[Techno]

Welcome, Chris.....And I think everyone can take it as read, that Leon will be busting a gut to 'sort this out' as fast as is humanly possible.

Cheers - Phil

[d_Guy]

Welcome, Chris.....And I think everyone can take it as read, that Leon will be busting a gut to 'sort this out' as fast as is humanly possible.

Cheers - Phil

Let me second this welcome to Chris and extend it to a bunch of new folks:
Jimbo94, Sjb1001, Smallchild139, Sediment, Leonardo, Grimheart, KeithS, Pfuentes, Stratoq, Grahambeyrout, Rolf Steiner, Jethro2, Tarty and WilliamB (I like your blog, dude!). You have each brought insights to BKCIII (even difficult to hear ones). I hope that you'll stay around and continue to conribute. The Pendraken team (and community) is great and I can only echo Techno's comments about Leon.

If I omitted anyone from the welcome - I apologize,

d_guy
Village Idiot (unofficial)

[vonlacy]

Had time to read through the rules.

Firstly, I would like to say that physically they are well produced, clear and well presented, as I would expect from Pendraken.

I have played Blitzkreig Commander since it was first published, it is elegant and simple.

I was looking forward to Blitzkreig Commander 111, to refine, clarify and hone the system.

Unfortunately, we have change for the sake of change, for example no FAC only a super FOO who can also handle aircraft, even though they would be probably on different nets, even if they had radios! The army lists, as other forum member's have pointed out are not fit for purpose, my Russians can have up to 12 armoured units per 1000 pts, as long as it is only 1 of each type, unless it is a T34, BT5/7 & T26 where we can have 2 of each! Units have disappeared from the lists i.e. KV1E, others are now classed as lumbering, i.e. KV1, making them all but useless in an attacking force.

Well done Pendraken in holding up your hand about these rules, others would cross their fingers and hope it would go under the radar.

Disappointed, so it's a 4 from me.

[williamb]

@ d_Guy
Thanks for the welcome.   Your collection of helmets and weapons is impressive.

[sediment]

@ dGuy, thanks for the welcome.  I've actually been a pretty inactive member here for some time as most of my efforts have been on the SMP BKC and CWC forum, but emphasis has now switched to Pendraken since the release of BKCIII.  Unfortunately, I'm something of a heretic, playing in 6mm as I have too much time and effort invested in my large little armies.  Does give me a vested interest in seeing the best WW2 and Cold War rule sets get revamped right though.

Cheers, Andy

PS Our local group is based at the Deeside Defenders club near Chester, if anyone fancies a game and, if you suffer megalomania in miniature, there is also the Cold War Commanders Group who play some seriously big games throughout the year.

[d_Guy]

Thanks, William! I still have a few to put up and a lot more descriptions to write.

Andy (sediment) oops! misread your sign-up date. You should be welcoming me. 

[toxicpixie]

@ d_Guy
Thanks for the welcome.   Your collection of helmets and weapons is impressive.

I'm trying really hard to resist adding a Sid James laughter track to that.

Keeps them well polished, he does.

Yes, welcome to new or de-lurking people, hope you come for the rules & stay for the knowledge and chat!

[sediment]

@ dGuy LOL, no worries.  My post count defines me as a newbie here pretty well.

@TP Cor wot a carve up!

Cheers, Andy