Principles of War

Started by Luddite, 21 April 2017, 09:31:49 AM

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Luddite

Recently we've been playing a lot of the old Principles of War ruleset. 

Although "old guard", its actually a solid, enjoyable ruleset.

However, we are struggling to get to grips with how "firing groups" work.

Does anyone here have experience of these rules?  If so could you help me out by explaining how you understand the "firing groups" work?

:- :)
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Great rule set.
Each unit multiplies for weapon and range.
Total everyone firing.
Find factor (unmodified)
Apply factors for each unit, or by group, depending on what rules say.
Roll dice.
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Luddite

Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 April 2017, 10:46:14 AM
Great rule set.
Each unit multiplies for weapon and range.
Total everyone firing.
Find factor (unmodified)
Apply factors for each unit, or by group, depending on what rules say.
Roll dice.


Yep, we're enjoying them greatly.

Its the bits in bold we're struggling with.
There's no practical clarity around how to form a Firing Group.

1 unit v 1 unit - no problem

Multiple units v 1 unit - no problem, that's a Firing Group

Multiple units v multiple units - err...
 
We've found through play that every time we come to it, we're just not sure what can and can't be included in a Firing Group.  
The example in the book just makes it worse!   ;D

That said, its a joy to rediscover an older ruleset that's stood the test of time and gives a cracking game
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Without having the playsheet in front of me... and it's years since I've played. Are you playing colonial or napoleonics, as the factors are slightly different!
Example that springs to mind is (colonial):
Three units firing! A twelve with breach loading rifles, a muzzle loading ten, and an attached artillery (shaken) 6.

12 BLR at short x3, MLR 10 at short x 2 (12x3 =36)+(10x2=20)=56, rounds up to 60. However, the artillery is long range (x0.5) and shaken, (one column shift left), so normally it wouldn't bother firing.
Your MLR are poor fire discipline 1L, one unit high fire discipline/sharpshooter 1R, back to 60, the firer notices the target group has cavalry attached, the artillery is (6 x 0.5=3) so could take your target up to 65, but shaken so normally this would cause a 1L per unit.
However, the target group includes cavalry (1R), up to 65.
Roll d6, watch your opponent turn pale! Just don't roll a 6 or your artillery loses another strength!

By unit is the three bases. By group is one, or more, units firing at the same target, or one or more target unit.
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Luddite

Cheers Lemmy.

This is the bit we're struggling with!

;D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 April 2017, 04:42:01 PM
By group is one, or more, units firing at the same target, or one or more target unit.

http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Okay, second turn of firing, another cavalry unit joins he target group, is still only a single shift 1R, So still 65.

I'll try and clear up...
3 bases = unit.
Two or more units = group, whether target or two or more firing.
Then apply factors whether by group or by unit (digging in shift, maybe, is by unit), cavalry shift right is (without the rule sheet) by group. Artillery on artillery is by unit.
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Leman

I think this is why BBB was invented. This sounds like incredibly brain-frying hard work to me, reminiscent of O Level Maths - which was an enormous drag.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

Luddite

So, here's an example of the problem we had last game.

Units A-F are the Austrians.
Unit's 1-5 are the Italians.

The situation is that Unit 3 charged last turn (with unit 4 moving up), and Unit C has succeeded its Morale test to receive the charge.

It's now the Austrian Firing Phase, and we try to figure out what Fires at what, in what groups...

We went with:

A fires at 1 as a single unit
B, C, D, and F fires as a firing group at 3 and 4 as a target group
E fires at 5 as a single unit

However, we also considered that as the rules seem to be written A, B, C, D, E, and F should have fired as a group at 1, 3, 4, and 5 as a target group.

Much rules consultation, debate, head scratching, and more debate didn't really resolve our confusion.

:D
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Now I'm going to fry your minds:
1&2 fire at A
5 fires at E
3&4 fight B as a melee (different factors).

The artillery F is in trouble!!!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Luddite

Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 April 2017, 10:31:27 PM
Now I'm going to fry your minds:
1&2 fire at A
5 fires at E
3&4 fight B as a melee (different factors).

The artillery F is in trouble!!!


OK, so moving on to the next turn then!

Out of interest, why does 4 fight B in melee?
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Duke Speedy of Leighton

My fault, misread the picture, I thought they had contacted. My mistake, sorry.
4 & D can shoot each other, artillery F can also shoot at 4. D is in trouble, as at that range it will be canister, x3 factors!
So 4 has the option to charge D, and suffer closing fire, (1L for being charged, but both shots as short range)  or stand and shoot.
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Duke Speedy of Leighton

Is that a shaken on 5? In which case, get in there!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
2016 Pendraken Painting Competion Participation Prize  (Lucky Dip Catagory) Winner

Luddite

LOL.  The Italians pretty much broke after this turn.

:D
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

FierceKitty

Quote from: Leman on 21 April 2017, 05:31:26 PM
I think this is why BBB was invented. This sounds like incredibly brain-frying hard work to me, reminiscent of O Level Maths - which was an enormous drag.

Frederick the Great disliked maths and was incompetent at even simple arithmetic. Likewise the current poster. You are in good company.
I don't drink coffee to wake up. I wake up to drink coffee.

sunjester

I haven't played Principles of War for many years and was talking about digging it out again just the other day. I'd forgotten about the degree of maths involved, perhaps I'll stick to Black powder! :- ;D ;D