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Author Topic: Principles of War  (Read 1405 times)
Luddite
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« on: 21 April 2017, 09:31:49 AM »

Recently we've been playing a lot of the old Principles of War ruleset. 

Although "old guard", its actually a solid, enjoyable ruleset.

However, we are struggling to get to grips with how "firing groups" work.

Does anyone here have experience of these rules?  If so could you help me out by explaining how you understand the "firing groups" work?

 :- Smiley
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #1 on: 21 April 2017, 10:46:14 AM »

Great rule set.
Each unit multiplies for weapon and range.
Total everyone firing.
Find factor (unmodified)
Apply factors for each unit, or by group, depending on what rules say.
Roll dice.
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Luddite
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« Reply #2 on: 21 April 2017, 03:20:02 PM »

Great rule set.
Each unit multiplies for weapon and range.
Total everyone firing.
Find factor (unmodified)
Apply factors for each unit, or by group, depending on what rules say.
Roll dice.


Yep, we're enjoying them greatly.

Its the bits in bold we're struggling with.
There's no practical clarity around how to form a Firing Group.

1 unit v 1 unit - no problem

Multiple units v 1 unit - no problem, that's a Firing Group

Multiple units v multiple units - err...
  
We've found through play that every time we come to it, we're just not sure what can and can't be included in a Firing Group.  
The example in the book just makes it worse!   Grin

That said, its a joy to rediscover an older ruleset that's stood the test of time and gives a cracking game
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http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
mad lemmey
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« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2017, 04:42:01 PM »

Without having the playsheet in front of me... and it's years since I've played. Are you playing colonial or napoleonics, as the factors are slightly different!
Example that springs to mind is (colonial):
Three units firing! A twelve with breach loading rifles, a muzzle loading ten, and an attached artillery (shaken) 6.

12 BLR at short x3, MLR 10 at short x 2 (12x3 =36)+(10x2=20)=56, rounds up to 60. However, the artillery is long range (x0.5) and shaken, (one column shift left), so normally it wouldn't bother firing.
Your MLR are poor fire discipline 1L, one unit high fire discipline/sharpshooter 1R, back to 60, the firer notices the target group has cavalry attached, the artillery is (6 x 0.5=3) so could take your target up to 65, but shaken so normally this would cause a 1L per unit.
However, the target group includes cavalry (1R), up to 65.
Roll d6, watch your opponent turn pale! Just don't roll a 6 or your artillery loses another strength!

By unit is the three bases. By group is one, or more, units firing at the same target, or one or more target unit.
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Luddite
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« Reply #4 on: 21 April 2017, 04:55:29 PM »

Cheers Lemmy.

This is the bit we're struggling with!

 Grin
By group is one, or more, units firing at the same target, or one or more target unit.

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"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
mad lemmey
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« Reply #5 on: 21 April 2017, 05:06:41 PM »

Okay, second turn of firing, another cavalry unit joins he target group, is still only a single shift 1R, So still 65.

I'll try and clear up...
3 bases = unit.
Two or more units = group, whether target or two or more firing.
Then apply factors whether by group or by unit (digging in shift, maybe, is by unit), cavalry shift right is (without the rule sheet) by group. Artillery on artillery is by unit.
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Leman
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« Reply #6 on: 21 April 2017, 05:31:26 PM »

I think this is why BBB was invented. This sounds like incredibly brain-frying hard work to me, reminiscent of O Level Maths - which was an enormous drag.
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Luddite
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« Reply #7 on: 21 April 2017, 09:06:57 PM »

So, hereís an example of the problem we had last game.

Units A-F are the Austrians.
Unitís 1-5 are the Italians.

The situation is that Unit 3 charged last turn (with unit 4 moving up), and Unit C has succeeded its Morale test to receive the charge.

Itís now the Austrian Firing Phase, and we try to figure out what Fires at what, in what groupsÖ

We went with:

A fires at 1 as a single unit
B, C, D, and F fires as a firing group at 3 and 4 as a target group
E fires at 5 as a single unit

However, we also considered that as the rules seem to be written A, B, C, D, E, and F should have fired as a group at 1, 3, 4, and 5 as a target group.

Much rules consultation, debate, head scratching, and more debate didnít really resolve our confusion.

 Cheesy
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http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
mad lemmey
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« Reply #8 on: 21 April 2017, 10:31:27 PM »

Now I'm going to fry your minds:
1&2 fire at A
5 fires at E
3&4 fight B as a melee (different factors).

The artillery F is in trouble!!!
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Luddite
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« Reply #9 on: 21 April 2017, 11:16:24 PM »

Now I'm going to fry your minds:
1&2 fire at A
5 fires at E
3&4 fight B as a melee (different factors).

The artillery F is in trouble!!!


OK, so moving on to the next turn then!

Out of interest, why does 4 fight B in melee?
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http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
mad lemmey
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« Reply #10 on: 21 April 2017, 11:57:54 PM »

My fault, misread the picture, I thought they had contacted. My mistake, sorry.
4 & D can shoot each other, artillery F can also shoot at 4. D is in trouble, as at that range it will be canister, x3 factors!
So 4 has the option to charge D, and suffer closing fire, (1L for being charged, but both shots as short range)  or stand and shoot.
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Chekov's Gun, Occam's Razor, and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle walk into a bar. You won't believe what happens next!

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mad lemmey
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« Reply #11 on: 21 April 2017, 11:59:20 PM »

Is that a shaken on 5? In which case, get in there!
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Luddite
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« Reply #12 on: 22 April 2017, 12:23:43 AM »

LOL.  The Italians pretty much broke after this turn.

 Cheesy
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http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN
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« Reply #13 on: 22 April 2017, 01:45:39 AM »

I think this is why BBB was invented. This sounds like incredibly brain-frying hard work to me, reminiscent of O Level Maths - which was an enormous drag.

Frederick the Great disliked maths and was incompetent at even simple arithmetic. Likewise the current poster. You are in good company.
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sunjester
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« Reply #14 on: 22 April 2017, 07:42:40 AM »

I haven't played Principles of War for many years and was talking about digging it out again just the other day. I'd forgotten about the degree of maths involved, perhaps I'll stick to Black powder! :- Grin Grin
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