Field defences and trenches

Started by Orcs, 26 January 2017, 10:33:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Orcs

I am in the process of painting some 20mm WW2 foxholes and dugouts. 

I am unsure as to how much flock to put on them.  I seem to remember when watching some re-enactors that the turf was cut and used to disguise the soil placed in front of the foxhole/trench to make it harder to spot.

Can anyone here advise me on this?
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Sunray

A number of factors will shape your foxhole/dugouts;

1.  Is it a hasty scrape (waist deep) - or is there time to dig in properly ? ie prior to the game or at least 3 moves prior to attack.  The more time the better the deeper dig and more time to dress with foliage, turf or cammo-

2. The terrain/climate  - Western Europe has enough moisture to bind the soil into turf, hence you get a firm sod that you keep to top off the position.  In warmer climes the soil is dry and you usually bag it like sand to give stability/firing points to the top of the foxhole, and add vegetation to blend.  The moisture in the soil will also impact on incoming.  The Falklands peat saved a lot of lives !

3. Every army has its own culture about digging in. Late, and indeed after the war, it was generally agreed that the German army were the masters at good dugouts- experience gained on Eastern Front.  The Brits/Canadians too began to take digging in very seriously and from 1944 issued infantry not only with the 37 patt entrenching tool, but also a small shovel !

4.  Depends a lot on what you are facing.  Do you expect armour ? If so you come off the crest and onto the reverse slope, with an OP/LP stuck on the ridge.    What level of firefight is expected in the killing ground? Do you have air superiority ? And...what's the plan ?   Hold at all costs - or simply make the Red forces deploy too quickly?

5. Type of troops. Veterans and elite such as Paras/Marines put a lot more into their foxholes than say armoured infantry who taxi around all day in APCs.

If you want to be specific about the theatre of Ops, and period,  there should be plenty of images on the web.


cameronian

with an OP/LP stuck on the ridge

Oh yes, the shortest of short straws, that'll be me then  :(

Very nicely and succinctly put Sunray.
Don't buy your daughters a pony, buy them heroin instead, its cheaper and ultimately less addictive.

Orcs

27 January 2017, 09:59:52 AM #3 Last Edit: 27 January 2017, 10:31:33 AM by Leon
Thanks Sunray,

Mrs Orcs bought me some of the Ironclad Miniatures 20mm field positions fror Christmas. While I expect the first one to be more grassy as it fairly permanent, I was not sure about the second two.

Its for North west Europe in WW2. I am looking at pre-pepared positions really.  Most of the photos I have found are black and white and do not show what they look like from a distance







They are for generic use for WW2 North West Europe. So I think you have answered my question.
The cynics are right nine times out of ten. -Mencken, H. L.

Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well. - Robert Louis Stevenson

Sunray

Neat little pieces

1.  Looks like an artillery position (gunpit) with stowage - possibly A/T gun like 17prd ?  Modern counter battery fire changed the rules on elaborate gunpits. From the 1980s onwards you did your Fire mission and relocated pronto as your cover was blown.

2. The other two are as you say Western Europe. And you could indeed enhance with sods etc.  With the advent of battlefield nuclear weapons, the overhead roof section of we now call the weapon pit became mandatory.  In WW2 an overhead section - with turf on top - could represent a command post.  It would also be  a nice  @-)bit of eye candy !

3.  Compressed earth/sand will stop shrapnel and small arms rounds - hence the bags at the top of weapon pits/foxholes.

I have been looking out of  foxholes/trenches and weapon pits in Korean war.   Usually on bare barren ridges of vital ground.  Like our 10 tree dense Vietnam forest, our ridges will be symbolic, but Rumour Control has learned that some dedicated Korean buildings/positions may be in the offing.

Wulf

Quote from: Orcs on 27 January 2017, 09:59:52 AM

That last one looks remarkably like one created by 'Mel The Terrain Tutor' on his YouTube channel...

Sunray

27 January 2017, 02:08:59 PM #6 Last Edit: 27 January 2017, 03:15:01 PM by Sunray
Quote from: Orcs on 27 January 2017, 09:59:52 AM





Build up the front wall of the dugout shelter section with sandbags and  few items to contextualise it to 10mm  and you might  have a half decent Korean "hooch". or command post for the Pusan parameter ?   Some of my best field defences started off as 15 or 20mm items !