Master list for new 1849-1866 Italians!

Started by Leon, 05 January 2017, 03:34:54 AM

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Leman

As far as I'm aware, in 1859 the Modena line infantry wore a pickelhaub.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

toxicpixie

Right - this might help!

http://www.marksrussianmilitaryhistory.info/SardinianInfUnif.html

The main thing I took from this (and other things I found) is that everything changes in some minor-ish way every few years, but nothing much ever gets finished or implemented or rolled out in full, and that any time they might have got  a handle on consistency there was a massive expansion of the army and a load of extra states absorbed thus bringing a load of almost but not quite the same gear to be dealt with...

And I'm booking marking that site, as it just took me an hour to find again...
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mollinary

Quote from: Leman on 23 January 2017, 07:05:57 PM
As far as I'm aware, in 1859 the Modena line infantry wore a pickelhaub.

According to?  The only illustrations I have seen, Knotel, show a shako of the Austrian type.

Mollinary
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Leman

Yes indeed. I checked in Kannik (Blandford) and it's Parma with the pickelhaub.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

abikapi2

23 January 2017, 08:13:29 PM #19 Last Edit: 23 January 2017, 08:22:19 PM by abikapi2
Here the reenachtors site for the Modena regiment (1816-1863), You could ask them everything.

http://www.battaglioneestense.it/

I'll wait some pictures of the sculpted minis.

Stefano

Leon

I have got some more information from an Italian customer which seems to reinforce that 'Line' infantry are exactly the same as 'Piedmontese' infantry, that they are one and the same?  This does make me wonder why we were getting requests for Piedmontese foot when we already had the Italian 'line' in the old/current range...

Quote from: abikapi2 on 23 January 2017, 08:13:29 PM
Here the reenachtors site for the Modena regiment (1816-1863), You could ask them everything.

http://www.battaglioneestense.it/

I'll wait some pictures of the sculpted minis.

Thanks for the link/pictures, we will need to get our information correct or the sculptor won't start any figures!
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toxicpixie

There's probably a lot of confusion, combined with just enough differences between "actual" Piedmont-Sardian uniforms or other separate states to "Italian"  uniforms from Crimea to 1859 to 1866+, that from the website piccies you can't quite be sure if what's down as "line" is going to quite work for any given one of those.

I looked at it, looked at the differences and figured I could live with the mix of existing figures and a bit of paint conversions at the worst ;)
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Leon

I've had a read through all the info on that site and I'm not much clearer!  The page is headed 'Sardinian Infantry' and apart from one mention of Piedmont on the first line, they refer to them as Sardinian all the way through the text.  My Italian customer has mentioned that Italian line infantry are referred to as Fanteria de Linea which might help with some images.
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to over 7000 products, including 4500 items for 10mm wargaming, plus MDF bases, Battlescale buildings, I-94 decals, Litko Gaming Aids, Militia Miniatures, Raiden Miniatures 1/285th aircraft, Red Vectors MDF products, Vallejo paints and much, much more!

abikapi2


toxicpixie

23 January 2017, 11:29:24 PM #24 Last Edit: 23 January 2017, 11:32:53 PM by toxicpixie
That's because they're the same thing :)

The kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia, as ruled by Victor-Emmanuel II, noble allies of the French, illustrious drivers of Italian unification, heroic opposers of the Austrians. As Vic-E  connived his way to king of all Italy they add chunks of the other Italian states to their kingdom (and lose a few bits to the French in return for them doing the heavy lifting).

They're opposed by both the Austrians and very other Italian kingdom, principality and state, who mostly get folded into the growing "Kingdom of Italy" more or less willingly, by Garibaldi, "big power fiat" or direct action.

This makes "Italian line infantry" something of a misnomer, for much of the period, as depending on author and shorthand and exact point that might mean Piedmont-Sardinian, Neopolitan, Papal or other separate state, the remnants of such within the growing Kingdom of Italy (as driven by the Piedmontese who formed the core of the army), or actual newly raised units of the Kingdom of Italy as it acquired bits and boa of territory.

The uniforms are all kind of similar with minor differences and flavours from outside allies depending on then taste of the sub-state and attempts to homogenise them!

ANd that's the short, easy and simple answer that others might well be clutching their chests and fuming over my hideous bias and compression of an insanely interesting and complex period :D

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Leon

Quote from: toxicpixie on 23 January 2017, 11:29:24 PM
That's because they're the same thing :)

Yeah, that seems to be the way it's going!  Not too bad for us as we can knock a few sculpts off the list, but no doubt we'll get asked about it when the range is released.
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to over 7000 products, including 4500 items for 10mm wargaming, plus MDF bases, Battlescale buildings, I-94 decals, Litko Gaming Aids, Militia Miniatures, Raiden Miniatures 1/285th aircraft, Red Vectors MDF products, Vallejo paints and much, much more!

Westmarcher

For anyone wishing a crash course on the 2nd War of Italian Unification (the Risorgimento), have a read at Osprey's Solferino 1859 .... or Wikipedia!   
(Leon?   :P )


p.s. Question to the expert enthusiasts of the period: The Duchy of Modena appears to have been a small independent state ruled by a pro-Austrian family. According to the battaglioneestense.it website above, it had its own small army of around 3,600 organised in one regiment plus some miscellaneous types. After Magenta, the Duke and his army retreated into Austria (or with the Austrians? - I don't speak Italian). Is this the same unit as IR Herzog von Modena Nr.32 which was in Brigade Koller, 2nd Division, V Corps? 
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Leman

The Continental Wars Society has produced lots of info on the forces in C19th Italy over the life of the publication of its journal, The Foreign Correspondent. Perhaps a friendly line dropped to Ralph Weaver might clear up some of the niggling questions.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

Leon

I think we've just about got it sorted now after a couple of days of phone calls with the sculptor!  I've updated the list at the top of the thread as well.
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to over 7000 products, including 4500 items for 10mm wargaming, plus MDF bases, Battlescale buildings, I-94 decals, Litko Gaming Aids, Militia Miniatures, Raiden Miniatures 1/285th aircraft, Red Vectors MDF products, Vallejo paints and much, much more!

abikapi2

Any idea of the timing for this project?

Thank You
Stefano