Master list for the new Korean War range - Input required!

Started by Leon, 25 October 2016, 09:44:17 PM

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Which of these ranges would you be most likely to buy first?

American - Early war kit
11 (20.4%)
American - Later war kit
18 (33.3%)
British - Tropical kit
7 (13%)
British - Commandos
11 (20.4%)
British - Later war kit
21 (38.9%)
North Korean
32 (59.3%)
South Korean
12 (22.2%)
Chinese - Summer kit
12 (22.2%)
Chinese - Winter kit
25 (46.3%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Sunray

Phil, Leon and I had a campfire conference on this one.  The real changes in uniform happened in and during the Korean war.

1. The US infantry and Marines began to ditch the anachronistic leg gaiter and blouse the trouser into the boot. You can see this very clearly in images of troops landing at Inchon and images taken later into the assault.

2. Late in the war the US issued the M1951 trouser - it differs from WW2 issue with its large cargo pockets.

Now with many sculptors this would not be an issue, but with Techno's accurate work - he even picked up the knee padding on KPA trousers !- these details will be visible on the 10mm, so a call had to be made.

We decided to go with no gaiter and the earlier trouser. So yes, you can use WW2.

The South Korean figures coming out this summer will add a nice line of Rear Echelon proxy types for WW2.

Do send us some images when you get them based and painted.

PraetorianJC

I'm currently designing some battalion level rules for the Korean War. If anyone is interested in working with me, I'm open to cooperative work. The goal is to have a fun and 2-3 hour rule set gauged toward 10mm players.

Sunray

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 23 June 2017, 02:51:56 PM
I'm currently designing some battalion level rules for the Korean War. If anyone is interested in working with me, I'm open to cooperative work. The goal is to have a fun and 2-3 hour rule set gauged toward 10mm players.

First, welcome to the forum.  :)

A PDF for Korean - based on the "revised" BKC - has been mooted.  Indeed on this forum we have discussed topics such as revisions in the existing CWC (Korea) troop values (North Koreans were viewed as superior to Chinese!) and a re-appreciation of the later marks M4 Sherman when pitched against the T-34/85.

Do you envisage your rules to be of the BKC genre?  I have tweaked the BKC II to allow 1960s era Bush wars, and its very playable.


PraetorianJC

Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here.

I have a copy of BKC from 2009, not even sure which version that is but I've never even got to play it. I was thinking of taking something like FiveCore's Brigade Commander and modifying that. The problem with Korea is the beginning of the war is so different from the end. At the beginning, there were a lot of tank battles but after 1951 the NKs didn't field many tanks because most had been lost or abandoned. Also, at the beginning, the M24 Chaffee (named after my ancestor) was inferior to the T-34/85 but, with some maneuvering, a rear shot or an open hatch shot could score a kill. NKs apparently weren't very skilled at tank warfare because the M24s did manage to take out a few. The up-gunned Shermans and American artillery are really what won the day in the end.

I see the game needing to be divided into 1950/51 and 1952/53 stats. Early NK troops and tanks would be trained and eager whereas by 1952 you have frightened conscripts. Early American troops were trained and disciplined and inflicted lots of casualties but they were certainly caught unprepared and out-numbered. The WWII era bazooka was useless against T34s, as were the old recoilless rifles. They were quickly replaced by Super Bazookas and larger bore recoillesses.

Sunray

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 24 June 2017, 01:35:35 PM
Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here.

I have a copy of BKC from 2009, not even sure which version that is but I've never even got to play it. I was thinking of taking something like FiveCore's Brigade Commander and modifying that. The problem with Korea is the beginning of the war is so different from the end. At the beginning, there were a lot of tank battles but after 1951 the NKs didn't field many tanks because most had been lost or abandoned. Also, at the beginning, the M24 Chaffee (named after my ancestor) was inferior to the T-34/85 but, with some maneuvering, a rear shot or an open hatch shot could score a kill. NKs apparently weren't very skilled at tank warfare because the M24s did manage to take out a few. The up-gunned Shermans and American artillery are really what won the day in the end.

I see the game needing to be divided into 1950/51 and 1952/53 stats. Early NK troops and tanks would be trained and eager whereas by 1952 you have frightened conscripts. Early American troops were trained and disciplined and inflicted lots of casualties but they were certainly caught unprepared and out-numbered. The WWII era bazooka was useless against T34s, as were the old recoilless rifles. They were quickly replaced by Super Bazookas and larger bore recoillesses.

You know the period John.  You might enjoy the thread "Korean War update from Rumour Control" - its Page 2 in the Post War (General Wargaming Section).   In researching the war in terms of a game, we revised the status of RoK . The 1st Regiment and the 11th &13th fought with tenacity in their rear guard actions in the retreat south.

So you are a grandson/great grandson of Adna Romanza Junior ? That's a fine pedigree. AD the 1st had a remarkable ACW and Post Bellum career from Private to 3 Star General. AD Junior was a voice in the wilderness - bit like Liddell Hart - in foreseeing the potential of armoured warfare.

I will follow your posts with interest.

Regards

James

PraetorianJC

Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2017, 03:15:33 AM
You know the period John.  You might enjoy the thread "Korean War update from Rumour Control" - its Page 2 in the Post War (General Wargaming Section).   In researching the war in terms of a game, we revised the status of RoK . The 1st Regiment and the 11th &13th fought with tenacity in their rear guard actions in the retreat south.

So you are a grandson/great grandson of Adna Romanza Junior ? That's a fine pedigree. AD the 1st had a remarkable ACW and Post Bellum career from Private to 3 Star General. AD Junior was a voice in the wilderness - bit like Liddell Hart - in foreseeing the potential of armoured warfare.

I will follow your posts with interest.

Regards

James

Don't know where you got John from, but I'm Jim. lol. I just read that entire thread you directed me to and it directed me back here. Hahahaha!

Good information there though and it seems everyone is doing great research for this. I'm personally hoping to sell off some of my larger figures so I can afford to buy more Korean War stuff from Leon. I'm a teacher and currently doing summer school which pays but doesn't pay well enough to keep up my lead habit without the wife getting mad.

Techno

A belated welcome from me as well, Jim.

Cheers - Phil

Sunray

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 25 June 2017, 04:28:31 AM
Don't know where you got John from, but I'm Jim. lol. I just read that entire thread you directed me to and it directed me back here. Hahahaha!

Good information there though and it seems everyone is doing great research for this. I'm personally hoping to sell off some of my larger figures so I can afford to buy more Korean War stuff from Leon. I'm a teacher and currently doing summer school which pays but doesn't pay well enough to keep up my lead habit without the wife getting mad. :-bd

I took a guess on your name Jim. You are JF, and  a great number of American males born after 1963, with initials JF are John Francis/Fitzgerald.
Apologies.

With all that post war kit sitting on the Pendraken shelf, I am painting up a 1960s Bush War. North & South Coryria is in East Africa, north of Kenya and close to Arab influence.   I am using Pendraken Vietnam Aussies,  Time Cast Cold War, and the new Irregular Miniatures Bush War range.   Rumour Control has heard that the latter hope to add a 106mmRR and a Toyota technical to the mix.  

The Falklands OTO Melara 105mm should be offered with Aussie (Vietnam ) crew.  :-bd

This morning I am painting up and basing a mix of Pendraken WW2 Bush hats & VC RPG7 as Coryrian African Rifles.  WW1 Aussies with Vickers HMG, and and a scratch built ZPU 1 based on 25mm Hotchkiss with an Aussie HMG gunner.

The Soviet backed North Coryia has just acquired Czech Delfin . The good ole boys in "the South" are sourcing a Gloster Meteor.  Rules will be based on BKC with bolt on additions to cover (1) Political developments, (2) Weapon procurement  (3) sourcing expert (mercenary) personnel (not just troops but also experts in aircraft/tank maintenance, all costing points)...and (4) espionage - my scratch built Harry Palmer.  

If you have a shelf packed with 15mm scenery, don't get rid of them.  I have blogged 15mm to 10mm with smaller scale doors/windows. I even have a 25mm resin Stalingrad ruin  which will become a 10mm tower block. A 6mm factory with new Irregular 10mm doors and props became a 10mm railway cafĂ©.    

Now back to basing . 8)

PraetorianJC

Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2017, 09:17:21 AM
I took a guess on your name Jim. You are JF, and  a great number of American males born after 1963, with initials JF are John Francis/Fitzgerald.
Apologies.

No harm!

Sunray

Techno's new US Korean figures are superb.  He has taken 10mm detail and animation to a new level. (the operation was clearly a success)  :)

Techno

Have you been taking some of my nerve blockers, James ?  :D

Cheers - Phil

Sunray

F Toys gives you this little pack of gum with every model. I have been chewing it.  :'( :'(   

Gazza

Quote from: Sunray on 29 June 2017, 08:18:43 AM
Techno's new US Korean figures are superb.  He has taken 10mm detail and animation to a new level. (the operation was clearly a success)  :)

Oh, when do the rest of us get to see?  :D

Also, Sunray can you recommend any good histories of the war? I'd probably look at gaming the retreat to the Pusan Perimeter: lots of desperate stands against hordes of KPA troops and tanks.
'Which painting in the National Gallery would I save if there was a fire? The one nearest the door of course.' - GB Shaw

Das Blog: http://we-stand-and-fight.blogspot.co.uk/

fsn

Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Steve J

I can also recommend Hastings book. 'To the Last Round' by Andrew Salmon about the British stand on the Imjin river is excellent.