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Author Topic: Nap. Austrian  (Read 4010 times)
mad lemmey
Field Marshal
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Posts: 15017



« Reply #60 on: 14 March 2017, 10:41:39 PM »

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Is it time I had a signature? Everyone else does.

Chekov's Gun, Occam's Razor, and Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle walk into a bar. You won't believe what happens next!

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Terry37
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 107



« Reply #61 on: 15 March 2017, 02:56:33 AM »

One of my all time favorite armies, and one that can be sooooo colorful. I wrote an article with input from Dave Hollins that was posted in the Clash of Arms site, but seems to be gone now. However, I kept a copy of the text so will share it here in case it might be of use.

Austrian Napoleonic Facing Colors
 Matched to Vallejo Paint Colors
by Dave Hollins and Terry Webb

This project is an attempt to match the various facing colors used by the Austrians during the Napoleonic Wars, with an emphasis on the 1st and 2nd Coalition time periods. It is the result of a joint effort by Dave Hollins and Terry Webb. While Terry bought numerous bottles of paint and made many, many sample paint chip cards to match to color chips  Dave shared his exceptional knowledge on the subject of the Austrian army during this time period, advising on the validity of the paint match, and  shared numerous sources to help in the validation.

We do not claim that this is an absolute final effort as the subject of facing colors made of dyed fabrics several hundred years ago can only be open to far too many interpretations. The many reasons for such interpretations is not of importance to this effort as for the most part, they are probably already understood, and the focus is really a useable color chart of existing paints to go by. And lastly, it must be said that for a couple of the facing colors there were no exact or even close matches found in the Vallejo line of paints, and this will be identified. However were possible the closest match possible is made. Therefore, we feel this is a valid reference source for use by wargamers, model makers and reenactors. We gladly accept any responsible criticism, or input, be it positive or negative. 

In the list below we will identify the Austrian facing color, then the Vallejo paint color and lastly the Vallejo paint number.


Austrian Facing Color         Vallejo Paint Color       Vallejo Paint Number 

Sky Blue            Deep Sky Blue         844   

Bleumorant             Sky Blue            961

French Blue            Dark Blue            930

Dark Blue            Prussian Blue            965

Sea Green (1)            No Paint Match         ***

Apple Green            Lime Green            827

Grass Green – early (2)      Intermediate Green         891

Grass Green – late (2)         Flat Green            968

Steel Green            Gunship Green         895

Austrian Facing Color         Vallejo Paint Color       Vallejo Paint Number 

Scarlet               Scarlet               817

Red               Flat Red            031

Carmine            Sunset Red            802

Pompadour            Magenta            945

Sulfur Yellow            German Yellow         806

Kaiser Yellow            Flat Yellow            953

Orange               Gold Yellow (fantasy)         007

Crab Red            Light Brown            929

Light Brown            Ochre Brown            856

Dark Brown            Saddle Brown            940

Gris de Lin (3)            No Paint Match         ***

Rose Pink            Rose               958

Light Pike Gray (4)         Pale Blue            906

Black               Black               950

Parrot Green (5)         Dead Flesh            035

Violet               Violet               960


1. Sea Green -There is no real Vallejo match for this color. It is best described as a light green-blue color.

2. Grass green is a color that changed during the period of our discussion. It was originally a lighter shade than it became later in the Napoleonic period, thus the two different Vallejo paint references.

3. Gris de Lin - There is no Vallejo match for this color. It is a light mauve color.

4. Light Pike Gray – the subject of  the pike gray color used for uniforms and the light pike gray of the facing color is one often misrepresented as a strong gray shade. To better understand this color it is necessary to understand the origin of the term “pike” used in this color reference. Most probably assume it comes from the pole weapon, a pike, and thus expect it to be a strong gray color of the metal point, or assume that it will match the color of the very late war uniforms of this color or of even of the post Napoleonic War period. However, it derives from the German word “Hecht” that was used for the Pike Fish, and more specifically the blue that was found in the body of  this fish.  It did over time acquire more of a gray tint, but for the uniforms of the period covered by our effort it was a definite blue shade. The best match for the uniform color is Andrea Blue 841 during the 1st Coalition period and  the closest match for the 2nd Coalition period is Pastel Blue 901.  Thus the use of Pale Blue 906 is best to represent the Light Pike Gray of the uniform facing color.

5. Parrot Green – This, probably more than any other color, will cause the most  issue. Every source I’ve ever seen except two, shows this color to a light, bright green, with the emphasis on the green coloring. However the period schematics show this color to be a very strong yellowish green, with the emphasis more on the yellow than the green.  The first source which seems to correctly reflect this color I found in plate 21 in the book European Military Uniforms, a Short History  by Paul Martin published by Spring Books 1967, and originally published in German under the title Der Bunte Rocke in 1963.  The text accompanying this plate showing Austrian Hussars of the 4th Hessen-Homburg Regiment done by Adam von Bartsch (1757-1821) and Wilhelm von Kobell (1776-1855) says “The uniform shown here is that of the Austrian Hussar Regiment Hessen-Homburg No. 4, worn from 1767 with  few changes until the first third of the 19th century. The green color of the pelisse shows up as yellow on the print, in the detachment on the march in the background.” . The second source I’ve found which correctly reflects this color is the wonderful set of prints done by Mollo, which show an officer and a trooper of the Hessen-Homburg Regiment No. 4. Both of these sources reflect the parrot green to be a really sort of ugly yellowish green color and matches very well to the Vallejo color listed above. The color selected, Vallejo Game Color Dead Flesh, is not a great match, but the best out of bottle match I could find. It is a good shade for wargaming figures, but a bit toward the gray side than the yellow side. Ideally I think it would be better were it a mix of Dead Flesh and Vallejo German Yellow 806, but the intent of this effort it to identify out of the bottle matches.


I hope this is not too long of a message to post.

Terry
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paulr
Major General
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Posts: 4983


« Reply #62 on: 15 March 2017, 03:14:00 AM »

Andreas Thumbs up Applause Thumbs up Applause

Terry, useful posts are allowed  Wink
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jambo1
Captain
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Posts: 449



« Reply #63 on: 15 March 2017, 05:47:12 AM »

Super stuff Andreas, some totally brilliant work there. Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up  And great post to Terry!! Thumbs up Thumbs up Thumbs up
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Redstef
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 104



« Reply #64 on: 15 March 2017, 09:46:24 AM »

I'm a bit late to the party on this.......but they are superb, well done sir
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"From each according to ability, to each according to need" Karl Marx.............I really need those figures

2015 Painting Competition - People's Choice!
2016 Painting Competition - 3 x Runner-Up!
Westmarcher
Brigadier
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Posts: 1820


Ruff! Ruff!


« Reply #65 on: 15 March 2017, 10:04:40 AM »

Excellent stuff again, Big Man!  Applause

Perhaps we'll soon see them in action?
« Last Edit: 15 March 2017, 10:06:26 AM by Westmarcher » Logged

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.

Sir Oik (of Westmarch) of that Ilk - 2015 Pendraken Honours list
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