Heraldry - Richard Neville

Started by Luddite, 12 September 2010, 08:08:55 PM

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Luddite

OK i give up...my search-fu is weak.

I'm trying to find detail of the heraldry of Richard Neville, Earl of Salisbury, and his son Richard Neville, Warwick the Kingmaker, during the Wars of the Roses. 
:-[
Anyone have any idea?

Cheers
L
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Blaker

Have you checked www.warflag.com ?

It might have their standard or something, other than that, I am not much use  ;)

Dazza

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Maenoferren


try this :D
Fought against a group who were the Neville HOusehold and this is their livery, I am not sure if it is the one you want
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SV52

12 September 2010, 11:25:55 PM #5 Last Edit: 13 September 2010, 12:26:01 AM by SV52
They both would have had two sets of arms:

Richard senior, one for his family the Nevilles as his personal arms and another for the earldom of Salisbury (1443?).
Richard junior, Neville arms carrying the label showing he was Richard Neville senior's first son, also the arms of the earl of Warwick from 1449.  Salisbury arms after his father's death in 1460, amended arms to include Warwick, etc.

The Salisbury arms are those of Richard senior (the Neville bits show a label with blue dsitinctions to show he is not in the senior line of the Neville family).

The Neville arms are those of the head of the Neville family.
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Luddite

12 September 2010, 11:53:15 PM #6 Last Edit: 12 September 2010, 11:55:51 PM by Luddite
Quote from: Maenoferren on 12 September 2010, 09:29:02 PM

try this :D
Fought against a group who were the Neville HOusehold and this is their livery, I am not sure if it is the one you want

Thanks for all the advice so far chaps!!  I knew you'd know... :D

This one i understand is Warwick the Kingmaker's livery, which i'll be using, although i also have a reference that says his livery was halved black and red.
I also found the white on red saltire with a white/blue crenellated bar across the top...

His father's livery i'm after really, and i'm rather fearing it's the Salisbury arms inherited from Alice (the quartered red diamonds on white/green eagle on yellow posted by SV52...that's going to be a bugger to paint  :'(  ...  hehe...)

Cheers for the help all...  :-bd  ...anyone has any other detail/clarification, please post it up.
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Luddite

Quote from: SV52 on 12 September 2010, 11:25:55 PM
During his father's life, the elder Richard would have had a mullet on his arms as the third son, but when his father died; his arms would have reverted to the plain unadorned Neville arms. At least that's what I gather from the cadency rules.  The arms of the earldom changed as the title changed hands from the Montacutes.

Actually the top one is right it would seem.  Cheers SV52...

Not sure how i'm going to paint that though!   :o

I'm pretty sure it'll just be the red saltire that i'll use.

Thanks

PS, apologies for double posting Leon, couldn't figure out how to quote from multiple posts... :-[
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Leon

Quote from: Luddite on 13 September 2010, 12:04:50 AM
PS, apologies for double posting Leon, couldn't figure out how to quote from multiple posts... :-[

When you're typing your reply, if you scroll down the screen, it'll list the previous posts, with an 'Insert Quote' button on the right and that'll add that post in for you to reply to...

Quote from: Luddite on 13 September 2010, 12:04:50 AM
PS, apologies for double posting Leon, couldn't figure out how to quote from multiple posts... :-[

...like this!   :D
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Luddite

Quote from: Leon on 13 September 2010, 12:29:08 AM
When you're typing your reply, if you scroll down the screen, it'll list the previous posts, with an 'Insert Quote' button on the right and that'll add that post in for you to reply to...

...like this!   :D

Ahem.

:-[

Cheers Leon, i'll duely take note in future.  

Thanks for enlightening this techno-challenged old scrote.  Most appreciated.

:D

And thanks all for the advice...
http://www.durhamwargames.co.uk/
http://luddite1811.blogspot.co.uk/

"It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion.  It is by the juice of Typhoo my thoughs acquire speed the teeth acquire stains, the stains serve as a warning.  It is by tea alone i set my mind in motion."

"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." - Gary Gygax
"Maybe emu trampling created the desert?" - FierceKitty

2012 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

"I have become inappropriately excited by the thought of a compendium of OOBs." FSN

Leon

Quote from: Luddite on 13 September 2010, 06:54:28 PM
Ahem.

:-[

Cheers Leon, i'll duely take note in future.  

Thanks for enlightening this techno-challenged old scrote.  Most appreciated.

:D

8)
www.pendraken.co.uk - Now home to over 7000 products, including 4500 items for 10mm wargaming, plus MDF bases, Battlescale buildings, I-94 decals, Litko Gaming Aids, Militia Miniatures, Raiden Miniatures 1/285th aircraft, Red Vectors MDF products, Vallejo paints and much, much more!

SV52

Luddite - If you intend using the saltire arms, then they have to be differenced as in the Salisbury arms, i.e. with the label.  Richard Neville senior didn't inherit all the Neville estates, one was retained by his elder half-brother in the senior branch of the family.  The plain saltire arms would be used by the senior branch.  It doesn't look like Richard became head of the senior branch on his half-brother's death, that's why the Saisbury arms don't show the plain undifferenced saltire.  Probably easier using the Salisbury arms, just don't pick a figure with a surcoat or a horse with a caparison, both of which were more or less out of use by the WOR anyway or so I gather.

You certainly picked a cracker when you picked this lot! ;D
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