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Author Topic: Any Warband players in the Netherlands?  (Read 7504 times)
Ace of Spades
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« Reply #15 on: 19 December 2015, 11:27:22 PM »


Also, where does "Dutch" come from?

That is an interesting question indeed but since the English speaking part of the world layed that term upon us I think you might be better in coming up with the answer than I am...?
I think it has something to do with the Dutch=Deutsch thing as it is still being mixed up in te US here and there. Undecided

Cheers,
Rob
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Ithoriel
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« Reply #16 on: 20 December 2015, 02:26:09 AM »

From: http://www.etymonline.com/

Dutch (adj.)
late 14c., used first of Germans generally, after c. 1600 of Hollanders, from Middle Dutch duutsch, from Old High German duit-isc, corresponding to Old English žeodisc "belonging to the people," used especially of the common language of Germanic people, from žeod "people, race, nation," from Proto-Germanic *theudo "popular, national" (see Teutonic), from PIE root *teuta- "people" (cognates: Old Irish tuoth "people," Old Lithuanian tauta "people," Old Prussian tauto "country," Oscan touto "community").

As a language name, first recorded as Latin theodice, 786 C.E. in correspondence between Charlemagne's court and the Pope, in reference to a synodical conference in Mercia; thus it refers to Old English. First reference to the German language (as opposed to a Germanic one) is two years later. The sense was extended from the language to the people who spoke it (in German, Diutisklant, ancestor of Deutschland, was in use by 13c.).

Sense narrowed to "of the Netherlands" in 17c., after they became a united, independent state and the focus of English attention and rivalry. In Holland, Duits (formerly duitsch) is used of the people of Germany. The Middle English sense survives in Pennsylvania Dutch, name of the people who immigrated from the Rhineland and Switzerland.

Since c. 1600, Dutch (adj.) has been a "pejorative label pinned by English speakers on almost anything they regard as inferior, irregular, or contrary to 'normal' (i.e., their own) practice" [Rawson]. E.g. Dutch treat (1887), Dutch uncle (1838), etc. -- probably exceeded in such usage only by Indian and Irish -- reflecting first British commercial and military rivalry and later heavy German immigration to U.S.

The Dutch themselves spoke English well enough to understand the unsavory connotations of the label and in 1934 Dutch officials were ordered by their government to stop using the term Dutch. Instead, they were to rewrite their sentences so as to employ the official The Netherlands. [Rawson]

Dutch oven is from 1769; OED lists it among the words describing things from Holland, but perhaps it is here used in the slighting sense. Dutch elm disease (1927) so called because it was first discovered in Holland (caused by fungus Ceratocystis ulmi).

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Ace of Spades
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« Reply #17 on: 20 December 2015, 08:41:23 AM »

From: http://www.etymonline.com/
 Dutch elm disease (1927) so called because it was first discovered in Holland (caused by fungus Ceratocystis ulmi).
I wonder of course whether it was really first discovered in 'Holland' or in The Netherlands? Cheesy

But interesting nevertheless! Always knew of the link with the German lineage or language but wasn't sure about the whole story, thanks!

He's drunk, he's pissed, he'll see you in the lists! Gelderland! Gelderland!
And ehm... what kind of song is this exactly! Shocked

Cheers,
Rob
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #18 on: 20 December 2015, 09:22:24 AM »

Traditional
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #19 on: 20 December 2015, 10:13:34 AM »

The earliest source directly attributed is Chaucer in the 1300s...
http://youtu.be/heFkmvxZytY


« Last Edit: 20 December 2015, 10:24:20 AM by mad lemmey » Logged

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Ace of Spades
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« Reply #20 on: 20 December 2015, 01:05:12 PM »

 Shocked Shocked Shocked
How the .... did they come up with Gelderland? I mean; I'm not from Gelderland so I couldn't care less but still...
Actually; in medieval times Gelderland was called 'Gelre'  Wink

Cheers,
Rob
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mad lemmey
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« Reply #21 on: 20 December 2015, 02:08:09 PM »

William Thatcher goes by the pseudonym of Ulrich vin Litchenstein from Gelderland (a historical figure it turns out)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_von_Liechtenstein
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