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Author Topic: Early Napoleonic /Republican  (Read 4547 times)
Wonkey Donkeys
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Posts: 15


« on: 10 May 2015, 01:07:28 AM »

Any interest in developing this range?
« Last Edit: 10 May 2015, 01:11:39 AM by Wonkey Donkeys » Logged
Rob
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« Reply #1 on: 10 May 2015, 11:52:37 AM »

Yes, I would certainly like to eventually be able to do these periods especially early Napoleonic. The battles such as Eylau, Friedland and Marengo involving the bicorn hat troops are in many ways more interesting.

However, I put off for many years buying 10mm Napoleonics simply because the ranges were incomplete. So I applaud the current Pendraken policy of completing ranges before moving on. I hope Pendraken do Spanish and Portuguese when they expand the British to include earlier peninsular war types. (This policy has the obvious flaw of currently not including a planned Mameluke figure for the Imperial Guard Chasseurs-a-Cheval  SadHINT HINT)   Smiley Grin

I would love to see a complete 1812 range which Leon has said elsewhere will happen after the 1809, Waterloo and peninsular war ranges, so possibly after that?  Undecided

Cheers, Rob  Smiley Smiley

PS. I had another thought on the early Napoleonics. There are some troop types planned such as 1809 Saxons and Hessians that changed their uniforms to be more "French" after 1809 which limits their use in later armies but would fit in very well with this earlier period and therefore should make them more marketable for Pendraken.
« Last Edit: 10 May 2015, 12:14:42 PM by Rob » Logged
Chad
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« Reply #2 on: 10 May 2015, 01:59:32 PM »

Doubt they will be done, as the period 1805-07 is available elsewhere.

Chad
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Zippee
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« Reply #3 on: 10 May 2015, 03:12:13 PM »

But, but . . . they haven't completed the current 1809 range before moving on - we still need French howitzers, not to mention a heap of Rhinebund allies but the Eye of Leon sadly has moved to 1815 British!   Cry

I love the 1790-1807 periods but have most of what I want / need in 6mm. as it stands loads of manufacturers do French in bicorn - but you can count the Austrian casquet wearing ranges on the thumbs of one hand  Undecided And decent cavalry and support tends to be lacking across the board.

Hohenlinden and Marengo, Eylau and Friedland, Lodi, Montebello, Caldiero, Pultusk, Elchingen, etc - so many great scenarios, so few decent ranges because 1812 sells more just like Normandy 44 sells better than Norway 40
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Wonkey Donkeys
Cadet

Posts: 15


« Reply #4 on: 10 May 2015, 09:43:08 PM »

I have most of my Napoleonics armies (9 in total) in 6mm alas,  and having spent nearly 20 years collecting and painting them I cannot face moving up-scale even though the pendraken ranges are very nice,  but the attraction of  republican/revolutionary armies for the Italian campaign in 10mm is attractive for the following reasons:
 a) nobody does them in 6mm yet, (b) the armies are small akin to AWI size so easier to collect, and wargame with, (c) painting the irregular appearance of the French conscripts would be more manageable-try painting striped waistcoats and trousers in 6mm! and lastly d) who wouldn't want to emulate the glory years if given half the chance just take a look at the Keith Rocco plates in his new-ish book on the Italian campaigns for inspiration.

Granted I know that there is less economic rationale in producing a Napoleonic range of this era compared to 1812,or Peninsula but then it just takes a few like minded individuals to spark an interest.
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aleeper21
Cadet

Posts: 2


« Reply #5 on: 02 July 2017, 08:59:31 PM »

I would support the range. I am looking to start in either 10mm or 6mm.  I know Lancer and M&M do some of the figures. There cavalry is not as good as Pendraken or is the infantry. I may have to go 6mm.
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Leon
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« Reply #6 on: 26 July 2017, 11:08:34 PM »

We'll be working our way through the Naps over a period of time, but it's going to be a long job unfortunately.
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DHautpol
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« Reply #7 on: 11 October 2017, 06:18:30 PM »

I have been looking at these figures with a view to a new Italy 1796 project in about a year’s time.

Whilst it is regrettable that the range has been left ‘hanging’, as it were, it seems to me that as the core infantry are available for both sides there are work arounds for the cavalry and artillery.  Much of the SYW ranges are unsuitable due to the very triangular appearance of the hat, which had a much flatter front by the 1790s, but there are a few possibilities as is the AWI range.  The good news is that neither side appears to have been overly burdened with cavalry in this theatre, so you should not need more than about two regiments of anything except, possibly, Chasseurs.

Below are my suggestions but I’d be happy to hear other people’s thoughts.

France

Dragoons – NPF19 from the Napoleonic 1809 range should fit here without any adaptations, as any differences will be relatively minor.

Hussars – SPY27 from the SYW Prussian range; featuring the mirliton headdress.  These have the distinctive hose worn over the breeches but these can be filed down and smoothed away with Green Stuff; the same can be done to the shabraques if the hounds-tooth edging is too pronounced.

Chasseurs – AWB46 from the AWI range seems to give the closest match.  These are the British Legion and have the Tarleton but no frogging on the jackets which would probably best be done with paint.  They appear to have just horse blankets rather than shabraques, but you may choose to suffer that and paint them as shabraques.

Horse – So far I have found only the 1st and 5th Horse on OOBs for Italy 1796 (so the 8th (the cuirassiers) must have been further north).  NPF19 can work here with head transplants using heads from FrT4 or FrT5. An alternative is NPF21 but the epaulettes need to be filed away and heads transplanted from FrT4 or FrT5.

Artillery – AWA13, AWA18 or AWB30 can all be used here although those figures with ‘spatterdash’ gaiters will need to have them smoothed away with Green Stuff.

Generals – Nothing really resembles the typical Revolutionary general’s coat.  I think the best option is to use figures from AWB37 (one needs a head transplant), together with NPF16, NPF38, NPF39 and NBR16.  The AWB37 figures could depict generals with their coats undone (Italy’s hot) and wearing their sashes underneath it.  They don’t have the ‘rise and fall collar’, but this could be faked with paint or added with Green Stuff. For Bonaparte you could use the hat waver from NPA26 and add some hair with Green Stuff.

Austria

Cuirassiers – SYP15, If the Prussian hats are too pointed then head transplants, using whichever of FrT4 or FrT5 gives easiest access, will be needed (the photos suggest that they are flat enough to pass).  Additional officer figures from SYP16 will be required to depict the officer with his coat over his cuirass.

Dragoons – SYP16 with the lapels smoothed away with Green Stuff give dragoons with the fuller coat skirts of the period.  If the Prussian hats are too pointed then head transplants, using whichever of FrT4 or FrT5 gives easiest access, will be needed.  Otherwise use NPA25, these have overalls rather than breeches and boots, but these can be filed down and smoothed away with Green Stuff.

Chevaulegers – SYA31 or SYP16 giving the fuller coat skirts of the period, the heads will need to be transplanted using heads from whichever of AUT1 or AUT2 gives easiest access, and the lapels smoothed away with Green Stuff.  An alternative is NPA25, these have overalls rather than breeches and boots, but these can be filed down and smoothed away with Green Stuff. Again, the heads will need to be transplanted using heads from whichever of AUT1 or AUT2 gives easiest access.

Hussars – NPA23 from the Napoleonic 1809 range.  These have overalls rather than breeches and hussar boots, but these can be filed down and smoothed away with Green Stuff.  Their shakoes are not quite cylindrical enough but this could be overlooked; the same can be said of the shako peaks if you’re not brave enough to try to file them away without taking his nose at the same time.

Uhlans – NPA27 from the Napoleonic 1809 range.  The czapska is not quite right but this could be overlooked.

Artillery – NPA19, 20, 21 and 22 could all be used here as the larger flatter bicorne appears in prints of the period.

Generals – NPA4 and NPA26 work here, their innate conservatism meant that the basic style did not change hugely.
« Last Edit: 11 October 2017, 06:23:01 PM by DHautpol » Logged

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DHautpol
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« Reply #8 on: 12 October 2017, 02:07:20 PM »

I realise now that I forgot to take account of the sabretaches worn by Prussian cuirassiers during the SYW.

If SYP15 are used because their hats are more suitable, then the sabretaches will need to be carved away or disguised as pouches etc.

SYA13 can be used but, if you feel the hats are too pointed, then head transplants will be required from whichever of FrT4 or FrT5 are easier to remove.  Again additional officer figures from SYP16 will be required to depict the officers with their coats over their cuirasses. Alternatively, NPA24 could be used but, as with the hussars, the overalls will need to be filed down and smoothed with Green Stuff and head transplants from FrT4 or FrT5 will still be needed.
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Not Drowning, Waving
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Posts: 104


« Reply #9 on: 04 December 2019, 10:29:14 PM »

D'hauptol
Terrific post regarding conversion options.
Did you get to do your 1796 project? If you are like me you might well have been sidetracked, but on the off chance that you got to it I would love to hear about how it went.
I recently finished James Arnold's book on Marengo and Hohenlinden which I thought was excellent. My only regret was that too little time was spent on Hohenlinden, but I guess Marengo is the main drawcard.
Look forward to hearing from you!
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DHautpol
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Posts: 71


« Reply #10 on: 16 December 2019, 04:41:03 PM »

My War of the Grand Alliance collection took a bit longer than I anticipated by the time I had completed combined grenadier battalions and the artillery baggage areas used in the BLB ruleset.

However, I have made a start to the 1796 collection and have completed a couple of French units, although the bases still need to be finished off properly.  I started with the French as fewer conversions appeared to be necessary.

Since I posted the possible conversions list for the Austrians, I have looked at the OOBs in the Nafziger Collection and in ‘The Road to Rivoli’ (Boycott-Brown, Martin. The Road to Rivoli: Napoleon’s First Campaign. Cassell & Co. 2001).  These interestingly reveal that there were no Austrian Kuirassier and Dragoon Regts in Italy at this time, apart from the Stabsdragoner Regt.  The regular Austrian cavalry were all light cavalry and comprised the Meszaros Uhlans (8 sqns), the Erdody Hussars (2 sqns) and the Erzherzog Joseph Hussars (10 sqns).  The battle cavalry was supplied by Austria’s Neapolitans allies.  These regiments were - the King’s Cavalry Regt (4 sqns), the Queen’s Cavalry Regt (4 sqns), the Prince of Naples’ Cavalry Regt (4 sqns) and the 4th Cavalry Regt (4 sqns).  The 4th Regiment appears in only one OOB, along with the King’s Regiment, and it is unclear whether the 4th Cavalry refers to either the Queen’s Regt, the Prince’s Regt or an entirely different Regt.

I have found information on the Neapolitan army of this period very difficult to find; unlike the later Joseph/Murat period.  I found some prints in the Vinkhuijzen collection in the New York Library digital collection.  Only two are legibly labelled, as the Queen’s Dragoons and the Prince’s Dragoons, and there is a nice print showing a similarly uniformed unit drawn up in Lombardy.  A couple of the others might be identifiable if one only knew what the Regimental names actually were and you could decipher the scribbled name accordingly.  Looking at these prints, it seems to me that some of the new 1809 French Allies figures might work here.  NSA09 Saxon Light Cavalry and NSA10 Saxon Heavy Cavalry could fill in here very nicely with a minimum of effort; I would need to see the actual figures to be sure, but the website photos look promising.

If anyone can point me in the direction of some sources for the Neapolitans of the late eighteenth century in terms of organisation, facing colours etc. I would be most grateful (I shall also be posting this plea on the TMP forum).
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DHautpol
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« Reply #11 on: 23 December 2019, 12:37:15 PM »

Further to my post immediately above, the guys on TMP were really helpful (a lot of knowledge resides with these people) and provided me with some very useful links.

The final analysis seems to be that the Neapolitans sent the "King's Regiment", the "Queen's Regiment" and the "Prince's Regiment"; although this "Prince's Regiment" was a composite regiment drawn from the remaining Neapolitan horse, including the original "Prince's Regiment".  Confusingly, the composite regiment also wore the same uniform as the originally named regiment.  The "Napoli Regiment" was subsequently sent to join the other three, so, presumably, this was the 4th Regiment mentioned in the OOBs.

The cut of the uniforms was very Prussian in style, although without the sabretache, so it looks as if my first instinct about using the new Saxon cavalry from the 1809 range is justified.

I may have missed something in the photos of the Saxon Heavy and Light Cavalry, but to my eyes they look like the same castings arranged into a different order.  
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Leon
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« Reply #12 on: 24 December 2019, 03:05:28 AM »

I may have missed something in the photos of the Saxon Heavy and Light Cavalry, but to my eyes they look like the same castings arranged into a different order.  

Almost but not quite!  The only difference between Saxon heavy and light cavalry was gauntlets on the former and a different shaped valise.
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