Pendraken Feedback

Started by Sunray, 01 January 2015, 10:50:28 AM

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Sunray

As a Pendraken customer - my wife would say junkie -  it might be useful to get some feedback from Leon on emerging trends within 10mm in general and Pendraken in particular.   10mm is still the poor relation of 15mm in terms of sales and users.   

It would be very interesting to know the best sellers in 2014.
How did new models such as the much requested Centurion actually sell?
Is the Sherman, Tiger and T34 still best sellers?  Is the WW2 market reaching saturation ?
How did the new range like Falklands compare with say Vietnam in respect of sales?
What are the white elephant  moulds that sit redundant on the shelf and are seldom requested ?

I initiate this discussion for two reasons;  First, I believe Forum faithful can play a part in good market research, but to do so they need to appreciate that requests must have wide appeal otherwise it won't justify the outlay in sculpt and moulds (I assume a mould lasts about 30 casts?).  Secondly,  whitemetal models last forever. Our 10mm T34s  don't wear out.  My son is gaming with my 30 year old H&R 6mm.  This product durability means that repeat customers must be attracted to new products and ranges .  This means speculation and risk by Pendraken.  How can we downsize this risk?

Perhaps the way forward is for a coterie of customers  to commission a range.  Say for sake of argument a number of gamers want a number of specific African Bush war models and figures.   Then that group puts up the investment and when a commercially  viable number of pre-orders have been acquired, the sculpts are made and the first edition produced.   Like a save the church spire appeal a forum chart would tell us when a requested model(s) were viable.   

What does the Forum - and Pendraken - think ?



fsn

No 1. Leave off the Centurion.  >:(  

Weren't the mongols of 2014 the forum members in action?

The problem with asking forum members to suggest new ranges is that you're not going to get more than about 20% to agree which means that you will disappoint 80% of people. The mongols,. for example, left me completely cold and I didn't feel engaged in the whole process. (Not that I was sulking in my yurt, I just wasn't interested.)

However, I do think there could be a mechanism designed that allows customer input into the process.


You can have my Centurions when you take them from my cold dead hands - FSN

Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: fsn on 01 January 2015, 11:15:51 AM
No 1. Leave off the Centurion.  >:(   

You can have my Centurions when you take them from my cold dead hands - FSN



Bout 2 weeks then ?

Mongols are lovely figures. Do have one question - why no shields ?

IanS
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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Duke Speedy of Leighton

Think the main problem with this idea is time, how much time to count it all up and process results? ;)
I have kind of done this for an obscure range by funding The Picts myself. But the production backlog and work for other companies (which Dave and Leon only ever hint at, but I'm sure happens) means I am patiently waiting. ;)
Plus there is Techno's 'You Want What' offer.
And all of those that took to time to buyinto Mongols, however lots said they would and never did...
And the 28mm Kickstarter of which I have no idea when I will use them...

But otherwise, I like picking obscure, unphotographed, items, buying them and painting them to see what I get (winged serpents)!
You may refer to me as: Your Grace, Duke Speedy of Leighton.
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Hertsblue

I have to agree with Fsn (shock! horror!) that the process of getting wargamers to settle on a common interest is rather more tricky than herding cats. I, too, had little interest in Mongols, although I applaud the effort and creativity that went into obtaining them. The spectrum of wargaming ranges is so vast that arriving at a consensus is well nigh impossible. Someone is always going to feel disappointed or excluded. The current system of a league table, updated at intervals, is far from ideal, but, like democracy, it is the best available at this time.

 
When you realise we're all mad, life makes a lot more sense.

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Techno

Agree with Nobby, Will & Ray.
I could write pages about this.....But I really must get back to the soldiers sitting on the radiator.  ;)
Cheers - Phil.

Leman

The Mongols and all the post-1930 stuff leaves me completely cold. Fed up with people banging on about bloody vehicles. I want Picts.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

Luddite

I would imagine that 'predicting the next big thing' and lining up miniatures to exploit that is the motherlode for any miniature company, including Pendraken.   ;D  Diving into a fad is no doubt a serious financial risk for any company.

We've talked about this sort of thing before and i think its a sign of Pendraken's quality that it has such a loyal following; especially in the 10mm market which is, what should we say?, just off the mainstream.

In terms of 'market research', i've always felt it best to engage with Pendraken and give them my honest opinion when they ask for it.  Sculpting and tooling up a new range is, as far as i now, a major investment so anything we can do as the customer base to help minimise their risks is ultimately in our hobby interests as well as Pendraken's commercial interests.

I await their 2015 releases with interest.   :D
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Subedai

GRRRRR! I cannot believe you lot dissing the Mongols. Now if you were talking AWI then I would agree but Mongols... Poor old Chinggis will be turning in his grave if he knew what was going on. He would call a kuriltai and Europe would get it for sure this time (except for the true believers that is). So you lot are the first against the wall -if they leave one still standing. This time there will be Mongol Zombies and Mongol Ghouls and whatever nasty supernatural beings you can think of! (Leon, are you reading this?).

Quote from: ianrs54 on 01 January 2015, 12:12:18 PM
Bout 2 weeks then ?

Mongols are lovely figures. Do have one question - why no shields ?

IanS


To be honest, in my extensive research over a period of about twenty years I have yet to find definitive proof that the Mongols carried shields into combat. The kesig (Guard) units are mentioned as carrying them while on duty on foot but whether this practice was followed on horse is unknown and if so is undocumented. But in saying that, there are supposed to be a mass of contemporary documents still waiting to be translated from Chinese into a language that I can understand, i.e. English.

Some of the heavy cavalry are known to have ridden armoured horses but this point seems to have fallen on deaf ears and I can't be ar*ed to make it from greenstuff. (Leon, are you still reading?)

As far as I am concerned Pendraken already covers almost anything I would want to do in 10mm so I will leave it there.
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fsn

Not dissing the mongols. Just not interested.  I agree that the American Rebellion is also not of any great interest. 
Lord Oik of Runcorn (You may refer to me as Milord Oik)

Oik of the Year 2013, 2014; Prize for originality and 'having a go, bless him', 2015
3 votes in the 2016 Painting Competition!; 2017-2019 The Wilderness years
Oik of the Year 2020; 7 votes in the 2021 Painting Competition
11 votes in the 2022 Painting Competition (Double figures!)
2023 - the year of Gerald:
2024 Painting Competition - Runner-Up!

Leman

Likewise: Mongols, AWI, LOA - lovely figures but the periods do not set me aflame. The great thing about the massive WWII range, which leaves me about as cold as Greenland on a day like today, is the extras that come with it, i.e. wagons, tents, camp stoves, boxes and sacks, street barricades and so on.
The artist formerly known as Dour Puritan!

pierre the shy

My $0.02 from afar on (yet another  :o ) sunny day in Wellington.

PM have been going for 20 odd years and have built up a very diverse and extensive set of ranges over that time.

I'm a recent "convert" to 10mm and have so far only seen the PM AWI and WW1 ranges "in the flesh", but very impressed how they turn out.

There are ranges that I would love to see PM extend their offerings - especially post 1945, though given my limited available time for gaming I would have to justify getting into another 10mm period (both to myself and the wife  ;) ) But as she says can't please everyone all the time.

Sure there are other manufacturers who do make much more extensive modern ranges in 10/12mm if I wanted to go that way but got to say that I would stay a loyal PM customer due to the company's OUTSTANDING customer service.

Thats what makes the difference to me, as a long range overseas customer. I'd love to be able to rock up to the Pendraken stand at Colours, Salute etc and buy stuff face to face but its not going to happen (well we'll see :) ).

So when ordering I like to see whats on offer (i.e. pics of product on the website) and pay actual postage, not a flat 40 or more % that some places charge. Leon and co are very good at answering any questions and don't mind adding on last minute changes/additions.

PM ticks all the boxes for what I want so "I'll be back" in 2015, probably for some 1940 CoC stuff (for a start  ;) ).




       
Though much is taken, much abides; and though
we are not now that strength which in old days
moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are.

toxicpixie

I do think the "Pendraken-starter" approach is a good one - even when people inevitably drop out, and all the others for whom period X doesn't appeal,  it helps cover a big chunk of the start up costs for a new range thus meaning Pendraken can afford to take a chance on things that otherwise are a definite no...

That said clearing the production queue and getting stuff on sale quicker would likely help - I was holding out for new Gauls but that project had partly gone elsewhere and partly been replaced by other projects as they haven't appeared yet :( I might be tempted to a few when they eventually appear, but probably not now!
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Sunray

Ok gentlemen, thanks for taking the trouble to reply.  s

A lot of  points of view and comment from the customers that Leon and Dave can digest at their leisure.

Basically we are happy bunnies with the status quo.   Personally I don't see any" Big Next New Thing" for 10mm, other than old moulds being updated by new more accurate sculpts and existing  ranges completed. We may also see a little bit of scale creep.

In reply to my "commission a sculpt" concept, it is the simple application of market forces to indicate popular demand.    Not just driven by the  pester power of  a few post happy  individuals with idiosyncratic taste in figures/models * .

    If twenty punters are putting cash (venture capital) up front for -say 2 to 4  Toyota pick up "Technicals "each  - then the risk of the sculpt is covered, and there is a market out there.

Looking back at my own wargame experience,  its amazing what was played with a very limited range of Airfix and Matchbox plastic kits.  We are really spoiled for choice in 10mm.

It would be good to hear Leon's feedback on 2014 best sellers  of the new sculpts and popular ranges.

Best wishes

Sunray

*In admitting a personal idiosyncratic taste, I must confess to having models of the FV4007 in five different scales. My first was a diecast Corgi  back in the 1960s.

Hertsblue

02 January 2015, 11:52:19 AM #14 Last Edit: 02 January 2015, 11:54:57 AM by Hertsblue
Quote from: toxicpixie on 02 January 2015, 12:45:18 AM
I do think the "Pendraken-starter" approach is a good one - even when people inevitably drop out, and all the others for whom period X doesn't appeal,  it helps cover a big chunk of the start up costs for a new range thus meaning Pendraken can afford to take a chance on things that otherwise are a definite no...

That said clearing the production queue and getting stuff on sale quicker would likely help - I was holding out for new Gauls but that project had partly gone elsewhere and partly been replaced by other projects as they haven't appeared yet :( I might be tempted to a few when they eventually appear, but probably not now!

I don't believe that it's possible to speed up the production times without putting more staff on the job - something a small business would not contemplate without a guaranteed market at the other end. It is, after all, a lot quicker to think up new figures than to actually produce them in metal. And as others have said, wargaming fads come and go rapidly. The start-up scheme seems to have worked well, although only Pendraken knows how well, but was it at the expense of other projects? As Freddy Mercury used to sing, "Iwant it all, I want it all, and I want it now!" but does it ever happen? It's a law of nature that anything that's labour-intensive takes a long time.

Oh, and Subedai, I understand the new Mongol figures are superb - I'm just not interested in owning any.    
When you realise we're all mad, life makes a lot more sense.

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