1866 Hanoverians

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Carefully ?

IanS

[KTravlos]

From cameronians point then probably in what we term the supported column

A dense skirmish screen fed  by units in reserve that would try to gain the upper hand in the close firefight and then URRAHHH and ala bayonet.

[mollinary]

From cameronians point then probably in what we term the supported column

A dense skirmish screen fed  by units in reserve that would try to gain the upper hand in the close firefight and then URRAHHH and ala bayonet.

But what does Cam think, and what are the sources which describe it? 

Mollinary

[cameronian]

No idea but we both know they didn't espouse stosstactik otherwise their casualties would have been comparable with the Austrians; you're the man of leisure, go and look it up.

[mollinary]

You're the one setting out what they did and did not do, not I, old chum.  I thought you might have some source which backed up your statements.  What a mistake-a to make-a! #

Mollinary

[cameronian]

Quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus creditor est.

Now go and do something useful.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Gentlemen,
Play nice!
Wars have been fought for less! 

[mollinary]

We are Gentlemen, therefore by definition we ALWAYS play nice (that is unless we play dirty!  ).  Anyway, in an attempt to bring some "evidence" into this debate, Stuart Sutherland's translation of the Saxon official history describes the initial attack on Diletz being carried out in company column's by the 2nd infantry. The 1st platoon is deployed as skirmishers (Half a compnay or about 100+ men) then an assault column consitingof the 1st and 2nd Companies (now only 3 platoons, so circa 300-350 men. The battalion had approached the village in closed up column of platoons, so probably 24 man deep, with each platoon in 3 ranks.  It seems therefore that the remainder of the 1st and 2nd compnaies in column were probably 9 deep. The other company columns would be 6 deep. In the attack from Nieder Prim during the Kohiggratz battle seems to have been conducted in  ompany columns. Given the organisation of a Saxon company (two platoons) and the standard formation (a three deep line) I am assuming a company column would be six deep, one platoon behind the other. The supports to the first company column are described as in hall battalion, so not clear if the companies are side by side or one behind the other.  The final conundrum, is what is meant by the standard formation being in three ranks. The Prussians form up in three double ranks, the Austrians in two double ranks. A famous engraving of the 10th Saxon Battalion at Problus seems to show it in 3 double ranks (at least). This Obviously has implications for the depth of a company column. Could it really be a standard of 12 ranks deep?  Seriously, I wuld be very grateful for anyone who can cast some better informed light on this question.  The big difference between the Austrians and Saxons would seem to be that they had no requirement to assault, and therefore often didn't, rather than the formation in which they carried out the asssault.

Mollinary

[cameronian]

Good to hear you place such store by references Andrew. I seem to remember you and holdfast standing in the middle of a forest in Bohemia arguing until you were blue in the face that the cleared slopes of the Svib weren't dotted with 'hundreds of piles of cordwood' until I emailed holdfast the translated portion of Heidrich which settled the matter in my favour and closed the debate. An acknowledgement would have been nice, indeed gentlemanly, but none was forthcoming although I understand you have incorporated the cleared slopes and the 'hundreds of piles of cordwood' in your Swiepwald game. In light of this poor and ungenererous behaviour do you really think I'm going to make the slightest effort to adduce a reference at your behest? Look it up for yourself, you have plenty of time, the clue is in the casualties.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Wow! Good info.

No, I'm not rebasing my Saxons!

[mollinary]

Good to hear you place such store by references Andrew. I seem to remember you and holdfast standing in the middle of a forest in Bohemia arguing until you were blue in the face that the cleared slopes of the Svib weren't dotted with 'hundreds of piles of cordwood' until I emailed holdfast the translated portion of Heidrich which settled the matter in my favour and closed the debate. An acknowledgement would have been nice, indeed gentlemanly, but none was forthcoming although I understand you have incorporated the cleared slopes and the 'hundreds of piles of cordwood' in your Swiepwald game. In light of this poor and ungenererous behaviour do you really think I'm going to make the slightest effort to adduce a reference at your behest? Look it up for yourself, you have plenty of time, the clue is in the casualties.

Wow!

It appears that we had a complete missing of minds. No-one disputed the hundreds of piles of cordwood. You disputed what cordwood was.  I don't recall you winning that debate. The main debate was about "dotted" (and how sad are we for admitting that?!).  Our point was that these would be alongside the tracks which had run through the forest before cutting.  You disagreed. Enough. We have exposed our inner childishness to the general public more than is good for ones of our advanced years. 

Mollinary

[Leman]

Anyway.....the Saxons looked very nice in their pale blue uniforms with the natty little cap, apart from the jagers in green. Now, talking of references, the Saxons shown in Flodin's photos of the First Schleswig War are in pale blue, but Ralph Weaver's book states that they fought that war in their old green tailcoats. I wonder who's right on that one?

[cameronian]

Wow!

It appears that we had a complete missing of minds. No-one disputed the hundreds of piles of cordwood. You disputed what cordwood was.  I don't recall you winning that debate. The main debate was about "dotted" (and how sad are we for admitting that?!).  Our point was that these would be alongside the tracks which had run through the forest before cutting.  You disagreed. Enough. We have exposed our inner childishness to the general public more than is good for ones of our advanced years. 

Mollinary

Sorry but not so; I maintained the cordwood (stacks of cut timber, there was no argument) was dotted in chequerboard pattern all over the cleared slopes (see Zimmer print), you (pl)  profoundly disagreed maintaining it was stacked by the trackside basing this on a lot of specious nonsense about what peasant wood cutters would or would not have done. The argument was settled by Heidrich, how you remember/misremember things is your concern. Re childishness, pot/kettle.

[mollinary]

Anyway.....the Saxons looked very nice in their pale blue uniforms with the natty little cap, apart from the jagers in green. Now, talking of references, the Saxons shown in Flodin's photos of the First Schleswig War are in pale blue, but Ralph Weaver's book states that they fought that war in their old green tailcoats. I wonder who's right on that one?

DP I think your assessment of Saxon Uniformsin 1866 is spot on, my sources say they wore tte Green coats until 1862.  But I think you may do Flodin an injustice! As I look at his photos, I see dark green coats with cornflower blue trousers.  I think that is right, do you have any other sources?

Mollinary

[sdennan]

So all I want to know is do I play the Hanoverians in normal line for Regimental Fire and Fury.