Ottoman Turkish Soldiers in the 'Hamse' of Atai, 1721AD

[Druzhina]

Ottoman Turkish Soldiers in the Hamse of Atai, 1721AD

Ottoman Turks Fighting the Polish Army
A battle between the Ottoman and Hungarian armies
Arab Horsemen

MIRROR SITES
Ottoman Turkish Soldiers in the Hamse of Atai, 1721AD
Ottoman Turkish Soldiers in the Hamse of Atai, 1721AD

Druzhina
Ottoman Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

The Turks are certainly more colourful than those pesky Hungarians!

[Techno]

 
Cheers - Phil

[iain1704]

I am hoping these recent posts on the Turks will encourage Dave to expand his Turkish range into the 17th-18th Centurys

By my estimates he would need to add to following:
Sipahi's of the Porte (non Barded)
European Spahis
Asiatic Spahis
Wallachian Horse
A Generic Eastern European Huiduck/Grenzer (covers armies & enemies of the Ottomans)
Asiatic Foot (Musket & Turban)
Croats/Hungarian horse
maybe another pose for Tartars ??

The rest is already covered by the 16th Century range

food for thought

Regards

Iain

[Hwiccee]

Iain,


First of all have you seen this post on the P&S society - http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10782.0.html?


I am busily doing a late 17th/early 18th century Ottoman army - here are some not very good pictures - http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10008.0.html

Basically I have been 'converting' the existing range and using some other figures to make the army. I have been using mainly the Sipahi pack without a barded horse and painting the bard as a horse cloth. For the 'Porte' guys (kapakula) I have taken off all the shields and cut down the lances to swords/pistols and carbines. For the European Sipahi I have done the same to abut half the figures and I have left the Asian as they came.

For the Croats/Hungarians I have used the mounted Croats from the TYW range. I have used mixed up the Tatar figures, the Croat figures, the Cossack figures and Polish horse archers generally. So my Tatars are say 80% Tatar figures and 20% a mixture of the others. While the Cossacks are 80% cossack and 20% the rest.

The Polish Renaissance Mounted Dragoons look like they could also be used as well - basically they are in fur hat, feather and cloak.

I haven't bothered with Asiatic foot as  these don't seem to feature in the campaigns/wars I am interested in.

This leaves me with the Wallachian/Moldavian Horse and foot - hence my question on these a while back. For the foot I decided to use SYW era Grenzers and paint them 'irregularly'. But I have hit a problem with the horse - basically no one seems to have any idea what they look like at this time. At the moment I have just left this as I have loads of other stuff to do before I need to turn to this - busily painting 100 European Sipahi at the moment! I think that if I can't get any other info I will go for a mixture of the Polish Dragoons mentioned above and SYW early Austrian Hussars, probably 'converted' a little- i.e. I will cut off some of the decoration.


Is this an army you are thinking of?

[iain1704]

Nick

Thanks for pointing that out on the Pike & Shot Society - I have now responded ... I didn't see the post - I only tend to look at this bit of the forum

On the Turks ... I am looking at the mid-late 17th Century mainly ... with the idea of doing for this period what Mollinary has done for the APW ... i.e with the help of Rich Hasenauer (author of Fire & Fury) developing a set of rules for the 17th - early 18th Century
Normally I use 15mm but certain factions within the P&SS have persuaded me that 10mm is the way to go

Your comments have been very helpful ... in return I got this translated from Theatrum Europeum 1663 (PP 684)
'Among the Moldavians, not any less among the Wallachians, are thousands of brave people many armed with a pistol, very seldom with two, they have their Copia lances and a sabre.' While this does not give dress - and I see no reason to assume they are any different from other European Turkish Client states - it does give how they are armed.

regards

Iain

[Hwiccee]

Iain,


I guessed you had missed the post, I know you would have replied if you had seen it.

The set of rules sound interesting. What kind of scale are they going to be - i.e. how big a battle will you play? Will they cover the whole period or just Eastern warfare?

I think that 10mm are the way to go, particularly if you are going to do large battles. I am going for the later part of the period doing large Eastern warfare battles battles. Initially using Russians, I already have a large GNW army, and the Ottomans. So I am concentrating on the Ottomans and the various allied contingents I will need for that. Then it is on to the Austrian/Imperialist and Poles. I already have some useful figures for these - WSS Austrians/Imperialists and GNW Poles - but I will need lots more.

Should keep me busy for a long time

Moldavians/Wallachians: Yes I know and they go to pistols and carbine by the end of the period, but probably also some retained lances & other old fashioned stuff. I am not sure which 'other European Turkish Client states' you mean that they looked like? But if you remember I asked on the P&S group a while back and talked to Giancarlo Boeri about this - we basically concluded we had no idea what they looked like.

All the best

[iain1704]

Thanks Nick

Rules should cover both East & West and I am looking at scales at the moment - it may even be possible to use the same system to play out smaller and larger actions (varying the ground/time & figure scales) - I also think it may be possible to cover 1618-1721 - if you include war specific rules - as long as the basic structure of the rules is good then it should cope with multiple variations.

Looks like we are both going to be busy for a while 

On the other client states - talking about Transylvania and the Bosnian/Albanian/Hungarian provinces. I think the conclusion was although we had no idea what they looked like - it could be assumed that they dressed similarly to other Balkan states/provinces until someone proves us wrong

Kind regards

Iain

PS ... on the Pike issue - the Blenheim map from the Blenheim papers (I have an enlarged copy from the Feldzuge of Prinz Eugen) - represents all infantry as pike & shot - again while not conclusive prove - since we know not all infantry where carrying pikes in 1704 ...  the representation shows that this was still regarded as the norm at the time - this would take us to the end of 1704 which is the time that Walton speculates Pikes were abandoned
   

[Hwiccee]

Iain,


Rules: I think it is possible and sounds interesting. Good luck with them.

Wallachians: I think the worry here is that when we do have pictures of them they look quite a bit different - like this for example - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47955&stc=1. The shield and 'hat' seem to have been typical in the earlier period and are quite different to the others in the area at the time, so maybe they continued? But as you say no one seems to actually know so as I said I will just use 'generic' light horse types for now.

Pike: Thanks for this, I will answer more off group. I am waiting on a few bits and then I will complete the 3rd part of the pikes debate for the P&S society. I have basically got about half of it done but I am chasing up some references.

All the best,


Nick

[mollinary]

Hi Guys,

Really looking forward to the next instalment on the pike question - although what I am going to do with my existing armies heaven knows! 

Mollinary

[Druzhina]

Iain,


...

Wallachians: I think the worry here is that when we do have pictures of them they look quite a bit different - like this for example - http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=47955&stc=1. The shield and 'hat' seem to have been typical in the earlier period and are quite different to the others in the area at the time, so maybe they continued? But as you say no one seems to actually know so as I said I will just use 'generic' light horse types for now.

...

All the best,


Nick

That pic looks like it is from Illustrations de Diversarum gentium armatura equestris. Ubi fere Europae, Asiae atque Africae equitandi ratio propria ewpresaa est published by Abraham de Bruyn, 1577. (see BnF C15675) Probably based on something even earlier.
A similar hat can be seen on a Wallachian in the Képes Krónika, Hungary, 1360

Druzhina
Illustrations of Costume & Soldiers

[iain1704]

Thanks for the Links Druzhina

kind regards

Iain