What happens ?....Scottish Independence.

[sebigboss79]

I hope people DO wake up and vote for Independence (48/52 atm for status quo).

Scotland as such is financially better off for itself, that is a fact. Most of Northern England already wants to join (joke aside). The problem is not a British or Scottish one.

We have a bunch of representatives that only fill their own pockets and those of their friends. We need to take back what is rightfully ours, our countries.

Concerning EU membership I would beg to differ.

Yes it does "cost" a truckload of money BUT consider this before opting out:

You need agreements for tax-free trade - which you are unlikely to get (for pissing off the Europeans we WILL get punished).

All foreign workers will need work permits - unlikely to happen under Tory/UKIP and all our plumbers and lots of paramedics are not British (fact!). Same as above. Why would anyone give us what we want if we ain't paying our share? So have fun if that crap gets through.

Until travel relaxations are confirmed or established you will need a bloody visa for any kind of travel. You really think leaving Eu is asucha  great idea?

Being Anti-EU and employing a German national as his office manager makes Farage a bigot! The fact that she is his (second) wife makes him a nepotistic bigot and snuggling with his "campaign manager" makes him a potentially cheating, nepotistic bigot. And for such people I would be ashamed to vote.

Britain, like a potentially independent Scotland, Germany or ANY other country that wants to enjoy the benefits of a common European movement (and market) must pay their share, period!

I understand it is in fashion to "want the money back" but first of all Britain already pays less than they should (which btw pisses off everybody in the EU). Secondly everybody pays and does not solely aim to get the benefits without the duties. Especially the Torys should stfu about getting something for nothing.

I also understand politics is a topic people can get really stroppy with one another but party politics aside what do YOU call a government celebrating itself for recovering 7 million in benefit fraud (where the truth was that this sum was named "unjustly awarded" and repaid mostly without objection) while spending 150+ million on investigating that very "fraud"? Economically I wonder if we were better off shutting up, not investigating that much and just be productive? There has been and will always be people playing the system. But the real culprits are those in the positions where they abuse the system to the point we see nowadays. I am speaking of bankers, politicians and companies - it is NOT "the foreigners" or the EU that rips you off - it is the very people that incite you to attack these groups.

Coming back to Scottish independence: With economic policies that do not work (historic fact) I say Scotland rather breaks off and does for itself. If we fail, it is our fault. If we thrive, it is our glory. Final question: IF Scotland is really unable to survive without being subsidised by rest-UK then why is Westminster so keen on keeping the scroungers? If someone pickpocketting me wants to stop doing that I would be glad and not beg them to keep doing it. but then again I am German and all my ranting above does not necessarily have to make sense.

[DanJ]

Most of Northern England already wants to join

I live in the North of England and I don't want to join an independant Scotland, nor do any of my fiends and relatives.

I suspect that if Scotland gets it's independance and please could someone explain EXACTLY what that would mean, there would be a shift of capital away from Scotland to England, specifically to London.

I also think the EU is a good idea, if for no other reason than it amy have been instrumental in keeping the peace in Europe for the past 70 years.

The problem with the EU is that it either doesn't go far enough or it goes to far.  Currently we're caught in a situation where there is a huge and expensive beaurocracy but the actual European Parliement doesn't have real responsibilities or power.  I'd like to scale it down to a free market border free zone OR a fully federated state, although given that national politicians would have to give up power that's never going to happen.

[Ithoriel]

I know quite a few people who think Wee Eck is the best thing to happen to Scottish politics for three hundred years and who see the Better Together campaign as the latest incarnation of what Rabbie Burns called the "parcel of rogues." I'm grateful they are not (yet!) a majority.

[Ric]

We did an informal poll on the notice board at my work a few weeks ago (tally marks yes/no) , we have 262 employees, 248 replys, and 203 voted yes... Its a working class environment, so I'd say represents a good portion of the voting public in  Scotland. The bigger issue was the second question on our poll - 'will you be voting?' - it only had 104 tallys...  So almost half the people who would vote yes, won't actually bother to vote. It really could go either way on the day.

[sebigboss79]

I live in the North of England and I don't want to join an independant Scotland, nor do any of my fiends and relatives.

I suspect that if Scotland gets it's independance and please could someone explain EXACTLY what that would mean, there would be a shift of capital away from Scotland to England, specifically to London.

I also think the EU is a good idea, if for no other reason than it amy have been instrumental in keeping the peace in Europe for the past 70 years.

The problem with the EU is that it either doesn't go far enough or it goes to far.  Currently we're caught in a situation where there is a huge and expensive beaurocracy but the actual European Parliement doesn't have real responsibilities or power.  I'd like to scale it down to a free market border free zone OR a fully federated state, although given that national politicians would have to give up power that's never going to happen.

You may not be representative. Neither may I be representative.

Concerning companies and investment moving from Scotland to London:

You mean the Standard Life fool that was quickly corrected by majority vote ? Or the BP non-entity (American) CEO that was told they would lose their drilling rights if they indeed move and his board told him what a stupid idea he blabed out? That crap -and there really is no other word for it- is a myth sown by better together. It certainly is not the truth. I did not believe any side but got my own facts from white papers and other freely available information.

No one sane in their mind will abandon a new market! No one in their right mind would NOT want a currency union. Scotland will tell SNP what we want. THEN we negotiate and find solutions. Scotland is entitled to its share of assets (and debt). That is the position we have put across and it is what SNP has said all along. Why would we not get a fair deal? Why do we bomb people to Liberty in Iraq and Afghanistan but do not allow some people at home to run their own affairs? Why do we want to leave EU but at home we are better together?

What would REALLY happen is that Scotland is accountable for their own financial affairs - nothing else. No more "subsidy scrounging". Scotland per capita is the 14 wealthiest country (UK is 18th btw) and taking out Glasgow we would be the 6th richest!

So the question persists:  

Why would England (rUK, rGB...) WANT to send money to Scotland IF Scotland asks to NOT have that money anymore? One wonders about the real flows of money - which also can be checked quite easily.

[Fenton]

Just a question

Who does own the oil fields in the North Sea?...Is it Scotland or the UK?...If the UK would  Scotland have to pay for them

I have no idea of answer myself

[sebigboss79]

Most are owned by Scotland legally. But some went to England as England -against the existing border agreements- unitarily changed the accords.  I think even after this shambles it is 90/10 for Scotland.

That only is important AFTER independence and if I was the Scottish government I would demand status quo ante, not unitarily changed borders for ones convenience.

Currently they are owned by the UK (taxpayers).



Let's imagine Scotland could keep the money they raise in a total devolution (which is what SNP originally wanted). Why would there be a reason to split up the Union?

IF a Union works for all parties then it is indeed a case where we are better off together. The problem is Scotland is financially better off alone. If I was to argue the case I would want devolution BUT I would agree to send some surplus south and would expect a more mutually beneficial relationship.

A bit like the EU it is not really working for everybody and that is the problem. Red Tape and people filling their own pockets are a common problem. As a German I can state SNP has given Scottish taxpayers what they want and thus get support for their political agenda. Leave nationalism and independence aside for a moment and name a party other than the Greens that has presented a sustainable energy policy in Europe. Only SNP came forward (after the German Greens in the 80s).

I do not agree with everything they say and I am not a fan of Alex Salmond but I do see they have a point. Most importantly my argument is if people want to decide in their own house they should be entitled to it - with all consequences though.

[DanJ]

Most importantly my argument is if people want to decide in their own house they should be entitled to it - with all consequences though.

I actually agree with this, I'm just not sure that the politicians know exactly what they mean by an independant Scotland, it's certainly not been made clear sounth of the border.  The SNP say an independant Scotland would keep the Queen as head of state, keep sterling as the currency (linked to the Endlish pound) and be part of the EU by default; while English politicians say not.  Personally I think an independant Scotland should be totaly independant, having the same relationship With England as France or Germany or Belgium has, anything else would be illogical and a political fudge, which probably means that's what will happen.

While I'm all for letting people decide their own future, where do you draw the line?  If the Highlands and Western Isles decide that their heritage and tradition means that they should be independant from Scotland, as was the case historically, should they be allowed to do so?  And what about the towns of the southern borders who look more towards Newcastle and Carlisle than Glasgow, could they move towards England?

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

What about Berwick? Country by itself?

[FierceKitty]

Haven't England and Wales both tried to disclaim ownership of Monmouth ever since they noticed it was the dullest dump in Europe?

[Hertsblue]

As far as Europe is concerned I can only echo a friend of mine: I signed up for the EEC - I didn't sign up for the EU.

[sebigboss79]

As far as Europe is concerned I can only echo a friend of mine: I signed up for the EEC - I didn't sign up for the EU.

To quote an idiom: In some days, some rain must fall.


If such was not the case you would all be worshipping me, sacrificing your piles of lead to my feet - one can dream, right?

[DanJ]

sacrificing your piles

I'm not sacrificing my piles to anyone!

[sebigboss79]

I'm not sacrificing my piles to anyone!

Burn you shall in hell . Without the blessing of the Dark lord thou shallst live. 

[Fenton]

I'm not sacrificing my piles to anyone!

Isnt there a cream now?