Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Napoleonic/Mid 19th C. Requests => Topic started by: WeeWars on 17 September 2013, 12:17:20 PM



Title: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 17 September 2013, 12:17:20 PM
The 1809 to-do list has a full range of Baden troops listed. I need a regiment of Baden line infantry. I was wondering with plans for the beginnings of other Napoleonic ranges in the offing, should I try converting the splendid Bavarians myself or wait for 'der real McCoy'?

Cheers, Michael


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Leon on 18 September 2013, 01:55:01 AM
I can't see the Baden troops arriving in the near future, with the Brits and Prussians up next, it'd be over a year before we've got any space on the design schedules.

 :(


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Le Manchou on 18 September 2013, 10:09:57 AM
Michael, If you are in a hurry, check the 1812 wurtembergers, it's almost a perfect match.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 18 September 2013, 11:23:54 AM
All my Napoleonics are the new range. I'm guessing the old guys don't mix too well? I think a bit of DIY may be the answer rather than waiting what could be a number of years. Lots of missing troop types still needed to cover the 1809 battles.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 18 September 2013, 02:05:32 PM
It's extremely frustrating that we're going to have to wait so long for core troops for 1809  :-/
Wurttemburg, Hesse, Saxony and Baden (well Baden not as much perhaps) were at the centre of several key actions in 1809 and skipping them to flit into unrelated Prussians and British is bizarre (well yeah I know you'll sell more Brits but. . .)  :-w

not to mention all the Poles, heck even Russians should be in the queue before British - they did intervene in 1809, many near miss what ifs there

and are we getting a French howitzer any time soon?
how about full size packs of legere chasseurs and command?
and carabiniers and grenadiers firing and legere elites in colpack in firing/march poses?
elite dragoons?
someone will mention loading firing line types as well  ^#(^
then there's guard foot artillery
and some nobs and marshals

so much left to do before delving into the side show that is Iberia, let alone Prussians who don't have a role until 1812 at the earliest.  :'(


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: mad lemmey on 18 September 2013, 02:08:03 PM
They did in 1806 to 7...


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Ithoriel on 18 September 2013, 02:21:00 PM
To think that a few decades ago, when I started wargaming, if you wanted anything other than the standard Airfix offering you got out the craft knife, pins, plasticine and banana oil and then to look at some of the reactions to the current extensive ranges of offerings ....

... "O tempora o mores" - Marcus Tullius Cicero


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Leon on 18 September 2013, 03:33:50 PM
It's frustrating at this end as well, as we're trying to fight so many fires on so many different fronts.  The WW1 stuff has jumped to the top of the queue because of the centenary next year.  Then we've got the 1809 ranges which still need fleshing out, and then finally we need to prepare ourselves for the 200th anniversary of Waterloo in 2015.  Getting the Brits and Prussians done will mean we've got the main core for that, giving people time to buy and build their armies.

All my Napoleonics are the new range. I'm guessing the old guys don't mix too well?

The 1812 ranges stand up pretty well in terms of size and heft, there's a comparison figure somewhere which I'll try and find.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 18 September 2013, 03:38:44 PM
They did in 1806 to 7...

True but I'm fairly certain these are not the Prussians that are being proposed  :D
And if they were we'd need different French, definitely need Russians (as well significant changes to Austrians) and Iberia would still not make sense as the next step  ;)


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 18 September 2013, 03:44:52 PM
It's frustrating at this end as well

I'm sure it is - and I'm sure that Peninsular British will sell far more than 1809 German Allies  :o just not to me  ;)

Still a French howitzer would be essential for both - is it due anytime soon? (I'm hoping that is what NPF30 is :-\ )


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 18 September 2013, 03:56:32 PM
To think that a few decades ago, when I started wargaming, if you wanted anything other than the standard Airfix offering you got out the craft knife, pins, plasticine and banana oil and then to look at some of the reactions to the current extensive ranges of offerings ....

Yep been there, done that. I was that Terry Wise disciple. I did carve endless RHA helmets to pin new heads to French infantry (despite the clear size differences), etc, etc However none of them survived university (I lost all I had to a bad flood in the '80s - books, magazines, figures, games it was a very sad Christmas  :'()

But that doesn't mean that we should not want to improve on that. I'm not being negative but I would like a reasonably complete 1809 line before the sculpting gnomes move on. And the 1809 campaign is the campaign in which the German allies were the backbone of the new grande armee and no "reasonably complete" 1809 line can be so without them 8)


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 19 September 2013, 12:53:19 AM
To think that a few decades ago, when I started wargaming, if you wanted anything other than the standard Airfix offering you got out the craft knife, pins, plasticine and banana oil and then to look at some of the reactions to the current extensive ranges of offerings ....

... "O tempora o mores" - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Unfortunately, the times and customs have not changed in this respect since the 70s. Back then there was a similar mantra from metal figure collectors pleading manufacturers to please finish ranges. There can't be a wargamer who feels that a seemingly never-to-be-completed range is a good place to put their time and money. We love the Pendraken 1809 range and will love it even more when it is complete. Meanwhile, you only have to look at my blog to see that I'm not averse to getting out the green stuff and DIYing. I certainly understand and applaud Pendraken and collectors wanting to celebrate the bicentenary of 1815 (just get another sculptor! ;D ) and I have plenty 1809ers to keep me busy painting (till long after 2015! ;D ) However: because, no doubt, the same sculptor will be working on this range -- and other ranges -- I'm sure any wargamer can understand the worry about not having the 1809 figures to complete a division, corps, or army; and as Zippee says, the British and Prussians will need an army to fight and the French 1809 range is still building and not the same as the French army of 1815.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 19 September 2013, 01:12:55 AM
I should add: all power to the sculptor! We're obviously fighting over his time and talent. And the Pendraken goodness!

Cheers, Michael


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Ithoriel on 19 September 2013, 01:19:52 AM
My post was intended more as a comment on the evolution of both wargaming and the consumer society than anything else. As both gamers and as a society we've never had so much choice but when asked what we want, we want more. I include myself in that.

I recently played a game of CoC with space marines, space elves and a matzo cracker box with a drinking straw shoved in the front and the legend Pz IV/70c in thick marker pen on the top and we had a blast. Perhaps I've just endured incomplete ranges for long enough that "close enough is good enough"  :)

However, I've asked for German "Goliaths" and Soviet 203mm tracked artillery (not exactly core units) so I understand the drive for completing ranges!



Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 19 September 2013, 06:35:54 AM
However, I've asked for German "Goliaths" and Soviet 203mm tracked artillery (not exactly core units) so I understand the drive for completing ranges!

Understood, and yes we can all be guilty of wanting the oddities for our pet periods. But the items I listed are not "fringe", for 1809 German Allies are central core elements, I'm not asking for stuff for Dalmatia or even Tirailleurs du Corses, I'll even accept that Polish troops are a marginal second front theatre (as are Westphalians and Tyrolean insurgents) but you can't do Eckmuhl without Wurttemburg or Wagram without Hesse and Saxony - and howitzers are a must  :D

I'm not asking for that impossible "complete" range but I really, really would like the core elements in place before Iberia and 1815 (not to mention other periods and genres) sucks attention away (probably for years)  8)


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Rob on 20 September 2013, 05:31:04 PM
It's frustrating at this end as well, as we're trying to fight so many fires on so many different fronts.  The WW1 stuff has jumped to the top of the queue because of the centenary next year.  Then we've got the 1809 ranges which still need fleshing out, and then finally we need to prepare ourselves for the 200th anniversary of Waterloo in 2015.  Getting the Brits and Prussians done will mean we've got the main core for that, giving people time to buy and build their armies.

The 1812 ranges stand up pretty well in terms of size and heft, there's a comparison figure somewhere which I'll try and find.
The French Old Guard uniforms will be fine for 1815 but none of the 1809 French Young Guard or line troops. So does this mean apart from 1812-15 British and Prussians, you will producing 1812-15 French line and young guard?  :)


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Rob on 21 September 2013, 06:23:54 PM
Apart from the good old Baden Brigade there are the Hessians and a whole division of Saxons who fought ar Wagram.

I have no idea on the Saxon uniforms. Was it the 1806 uniforms?


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 21 September 2013, 08:08:10 PM
Apart from the good old Baden Brigade there are the Hessians and a whole division of Saxons who fought ar Wagram.

I have no idea on the Saxon uniforms. Was it the 1806 uniforms?

Absolutely yes the original 1806 style uniform but with amalgamated schutzen battalions

The Hessians are also in 1806 clobber (probably - some sources say they may have been equipped en route with shako and new uniform but I for one prefer the glamour of bicorns  :D)

Wurttemburg is not at Wagram but is essential to the early part of the campaign


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 21 September 2013, 08:15:34 PM
Apart from the good old Baden Brigade there are the Hessians and a whole division of Saxons who fought ar Wagram.

I have no idea on the Saxon uniforms. Was it the 1806 uniforms?

Yes, the good old Baden regiments that fought at both Aspern-Essling and Wagram!

Apologies Zippee, no is the simple answer for the Saxons. Still in bicornes but with the big difference being that they abandoned the hip pack for the backpack. The sword was now worn on a cross belt rather than on the waist belt. There was also an attempt to straighten the round lapels that was not altogether successful.

(http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3215/1serietafel15vj9.jpg)

If you're in a hurry, you might like to look at Clib's fine AWI Germans. More appropriate for pre-1809 as they have hip packs but lack sabres.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: WeeWars on 21 September 2013, 08:28:30 PM
As for the Hessians, I would go with Gill who says that they still wore the bicorne. Shakos were introduced toward the end of the 1809 war but issue was still incomplete in January 1810.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Zippee on 22 September 2013, 08:48:36 AM

Apologies Zippee, no is the simple answer for the Saxons. Still in bicornes but with the big difference being that they abandoned the hip pack for the backpack. The sword was now worn on a cross belt rather than on the waist belt. There was also an attempt to straighten the round lapels that was not altogether successful.


Indeed, yes the packs and some webbing was updated but in essence the 'uniform' remained as per 1806 - just different enough so you can't use 1806 Prussians  :D

I'd call that a simple yes (with some changes) not a simple no (with some things staying the same) - horses, courses  ;D


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: quasar42 on 30 September 2013, 09:06:36 AM
The French Old Guard uniforms will be fine for 1815 but none of the 1809 French Young Guard or line troops. So does this mean apart from 1812-15 British and Prussians, you will producing 1812-15 French line and young guard?  :)

The main difference between the French 1809 and 1812 patterns is in the cut of the jacket.  Given the size of the figures and the way they are sculpted the difference is probably not very noticeable and might be fixed in any event with some small conversions. Different people may have different views, but I would be happy to use the 1809 figures in latter battles rather than having to paint hundreds of duplicate figures. There are also always the greatcoat figures.

What would be nice on other hand would be to have some additional poses for the French, loading figure!, skirmishers, some kneeling figures for that last carrée. Also, for Waterloo we would need Carabiniers in cuirass.


Title: Re: The Baden Brigade, 1809
Post by: Rob on 30 September 2013, 10:37:58 AM
The main difference between the French 1809 and 1812 patterns is in the cut of the jacket.  Given the size of the figures and the way they are sculpted the difference is probably not very noticeable and might be fixed in any event with some small conversions. Different people may have different views, but I would be happy to use the 1809 figures in latter battles rather than having to paint hundreds of duplicate figures. There are also always the greatcoat figures.

What would be nice on other hand would be to have some additional poses for the French, loading figure!, skirmishers, some kneeling figures for that last carrée. Also, for Waterloo we would need Carabiniers in cuirass.
I do agree, I was merly "prodding" to see what happened. The armies I am building at the moment are to be 1813 based, which theoretically for French should all have the later uniform. However I do believe that the old uniforms had to wear out first so existing units such as the cohorts and troops in Spain and Italy would all be in the old uniform. It also seems to me new uniforms were in short supply as some recruits seemed to be issued with greatcoats only. In the case of the line infantry a Baudin uniform is a nice to have.
I also agree with the Carabiniers, we do have the line lancer.

Incidentally I was talking to Leon on Saturday about the British. He said we were going to have BOTH pre and post 1812 uniform changes types.

Cheers, Rob  :)