Hello, all,
I've invested in a good quantity of Pendraken 10mm figures to play Blitzkrieg 1940, French v German, and early Autumn 1941 Barabarossa+, Russian v German, all with the O Group rules. I'm not a great painter - slow and unskilled, but I do a job that pleases me enough (eventually) to get by. I've undercoated the figures in black and am now looking to *spray* each army (infantry) with a colour which means I will only have to add boots, weapon, skin and webbing detail and dry-brush/washing at the end (I am also idle).
And I am also colour-blind. :(
I have a couple of questions.
(1) which sprays are the most reliable? i have heard less than good things about Tamiya and Plastic Soldier Company on other sites which may be accurate or grossly unfair. What are Vallejo sprays like? Humbrol? AK?
(2) what bloody colours should I go for? some companies seem to do bespoke ones for German and Russian WW2 infantry at least (not seen one for the French).
Any advice massively appreciated as I am not greatly experienced and clueless (as well as colour blind). Thanks in advance!
Mike H (aka henjed)
For German tanks it's dark Grey, Vallero do a colour called German Grey which looks about right. They may or may not have dark brown patches
French are much more complex - some are mid green only, some are muliti colured cammo, one is furry (honest). The DLM and DCR vehicles seem to be cammoflauged those in infantry support units not. Most complex cammo is 3 tone, base green( Vallero Gunship Green should be about right) with a light brown and dark red brown blotches. There are also schemes with a beige brown base and a wavy green stripe on the hull. Hard to say which browns to use.
If you can get hold of it Blitzkrieg - Armour Camouflage and Markings 1939-1940, by Steven J Zaloga published by A & AP will be a great help. Also look for Osprey vangards and New Vangaurds on relavent subjects.
Markings - the French used lots of roundels and either numbers or coulred playing card symbouls the Germans the familiar black cross with a white outline, and the 3 digit call signes on tanks. These either red or black with white outlines. I'd hunt for decals for those.
Hope that was helpful.
Whoopps forgot the Russians. Seem to have been dark olive green without turret codes at this point.
Thanks for the speedy response - but my inquiry was aimed at infantry primarily (sorry if that wasn't clear): involuntary-obfuscation seems to be my middle name on fora). Tank-wise I am in a better place, I think (and I already have two excellent Zaloga books on French and |German tanks).
Mike,
Whilst we may not have the added challenge of being colour blind, all of us started out inept and slow. The trick is to come up with a technique that you can manage and which produces reasonable results. 10mm is a great scale for WWII and you can get away with all sorts of sloppy painting that would be unacceptable in 20mm.
Trying to find the exact colour match may be difficult and anyway, you might be disappointed with the results. Spray painting sounds like a quick and simple solution, but you will find the figures will look very flat. As an alternative try brush painting them.
I recommend temporarily gluing your undercoated figures to strips of wood, some painters use tongue depressors. Have all the same figure pose all facing the same direction. This saves a lot of time in handling the figures while you paint them.
You can trust Vallejo colours to give you a reasonable match to the colour you want and their Model Colour range describes itself clearly.
For the French, use Green Brown 879. Germans, German Field Grey 830. Russians - Russian Uniform 924. Take a reasonably wide brush and use a sort of wet 'dry brush' technique. You can be quite quick with this and don't be too fussy if you do not cover all the undercoat or if the paint is a bit thin in places. Just make sure all the highlights are the right colour.
Having done that the details can be painted and this is where the wooden sticks are really helpful as you can go along the line painting all the faces and then all the rifles etc.
OK, brush painting may not be quite as quick as a rattle can of spray paint, but the effect will be much better, and cheaper.
You have my sympathy because a wargaming friend of mine would sometimes ask me to check the horses he had painted, to tell him if there were any green ones...
Quote from: henjed on 25 August 2021, 02:21:45 PM
Thanks for the speedy response - but my inquiry was aimed at infantry primarily (sorry if that wasn't clear): involuntary-obfuscation seems to be my middle name on fora). Tank-wise I am in a better place, I think (and I already have two excellent Zaloga books on French and |German tanks).
Don't use sprays. You can get sprays of some Vallejo colours but I wouldn't bother. There are a number of reasons to avoid sprays but the main one is that there will always be areas on the figures that get missed. Paint them by hand with a large (at least No4 but preferably bigger) brush. I use Vallejo English Uniform 70-921 for British and French (and Belgians). The Germans had a field grey jacket and grey trousers. I use Vallejo German Field Grey 70-830 for the jacket and Neutral Grey 70-992 for the trousers. When dry give them a wash of Vallejo Sepia Wash 73-200 and when that has dried dry brush with Vallejo Khaki Grey 70-880.
Russians uniforms seem to be a variety of shades of khaki, at least they were in 1938-39 during the border war with the Japanese in Mongolia (Khalkhin Gol and Lake Khasan) which is where my interests lay. The Vallejo Russian Uniform WW2 70-924 is too green in my opinion but I have used it as a base colour for French WW2 vehicles.
My technique is to use Copydex to glue figures to a wooden strip (balsa or tongue depressors). It gives a firm bond when dry but peels off remarkably easily, I haven't found anything that gives as good a grip wwith such ease or removal as Copydex, your mileage may vary!
I always spray figures either white or black as an undercoat, depending on the main colours that will be painted on top. The odd areas missed will either get covered by paint or washes as I paint. I don't find much gets missed in any case. I will often spray the main colour of the figure over the undercoat.
The undercoats are usually car primer. The main colours are a mix of Games Workshop, Army Painter and Bolt Action with odds and ends from art and vehicle spray ranges.
I spray varnish my figures Matt or Gloss as required. The odd spots missed are unlikely to be handled so I don't see that as a problem.
Some people seem to have a problem with spray varnish "fogging". On the couple of occasions (over a fifty-odd year painting career) it has happened to me a further coat of varnish applied by brush has fixed the problem.
As to colours, "close enough is good enough" for me so perhaps I am not the one to ask. :)
I've always used spray undercoated at whatever scale - and I paint from 6mm to 28mm.
I've used white, grey, black and brown at different times - I have used green on some of my 6mm micro-armour but I'm not sure that was a huge success.
White & Black are generally the most common undercoats and they tend to lend themselves to very different painting techniques.
White up is good for lighter figures and using paint washes and inks.
Black up is better for darker figures (armoured figures benefit from it hugely) and then a block pigment painting technique (using a 3 tone approach) and or highlighting.
I've used brown for armies with a lot of flesh on display - ancient Gallic or Galatians or fantasy Barbarians. It works well with the various flesh tones.
My advice is:
1). pick a technique and stick with it
2). don't buy cheap spray undercoat - from the likes of Wilko or Screw-fix - or if you do, shake it really well, and don't spray it on too thick or spray in cold weather - it will clog the figure and don't spray it down to empty, as there will be thick 'clag' at the bottom quite often
3). I use Games Workshop or Army Painter (matt white or black) sprays as although they are expensive, they have a fine spray and cover well - I couldn't get to grips with the Army Painter coloured sprays
4). do not use spray varnishes - my experience has inevitably been poor - you end up with pooled varnish or (at worst) frosting which means you'll need to strip and start all over again.
NB: I strip metal figures using Dettol - and scrubbing with a soft toothbrush - seems to work a treat on most acrylic paints.
If I am painting up a lot of figures the same I try and block the main colours in across the entire batch - then do the shading and 'fiddly-bits' in smaller batches (say 10). I stick them to plastic milk-bottle tops (for bigger figures) - doing my bit to reduce single use plastic or for smaller figure I stick them in a row on the wooden deposable cutlery you get in the likes of Pret or Eat etc.
I also try and paint inside-out - so I start with the flesh & hair, then work out through layers of clothing and equipment. It seems to work for me. Others like to leave the flesh to last.
Also - don't skimp on brushes or bases - buy a lot and buy them in batches for each new project - a cheap or warn brush is a false economy - IMHO. Likewise a flimsy base will warp when you paint it or put filler on it - buy MDF ones from Minibits.
Hope that helps
Mark
Mark, Ithoriel, John and Chris - thank you. I see the consensus building against sprays (and I must admit I had forgotten how much they cost) - I think I will do as (most of) you directly suggest and go with brush-painting the base-colour, even though (with c450 infantry figures to paint) it will take me some time longer. I have painted some 10mm before, but was helped considerably by a now-absent son (who has sadly lost interest in miniature wargaming).
John and Chris, thanks for the particular colour identifications. Very useful. When I was miniature gaming in my teens (back in the mid-1908s: Mike's Model figures for ECW) some of my colour schemes were, I fear, rather inadvertently eccentric... (Waller's famous Pink Coats)
Wellllll ... I spray a basecoat.
I used Army Painter for the Brits and Yanks. Worked well enough for me over a dark undercoat. I did about a company (250-ish) figures with no real problems. I found it gave me a good head start. I made sure I had a brush equivalent for each if I needed to do a biot of touching up.
I'm now trying TTCombat primer which I think I prefer to Army Painter, though I have used the Tamiya spray with good results as well - though not for WWII.
Agree totally about the Copydex on lollypop sticks. That's something I think I picked up from Ithoriel, and never looked back.
I do use Army Painter matt spray varnish, and as long as the can is nice and warm and well shaken, not had a problem.
One of the things I would advise is to put figures with the same pose together on the same stick. That way you can make sure you do the same thing to each figure.
The other thing I would say is look at examples. You see different shades especially in German later in the war.
like the others I would go against using sprays. I have an airbrush but find you still end up painting any undercuts with a brush.the only way round that it to spray them several times from different angles, but there is always one pose where this does not work, and it takes as long as painting in the end,
You have been given a list of colours.
One thing I have found has speeded my 20mm ww2 painting up no end is to thin the paint down quite a bit for the uniform and paint the whole figure with two coats of the basic uniform colour. Then you just pick out the equipment.
I now do this for all my ww2 stuff.
And copydex is the best stuf to glue the figures on painting sticks
I don't use sprays either, except for Army Painter matt varnish at the end.
WW2/modern figures and vehicles are undercoated in Humbrol enamels (acrylic undercoat wears too easily on sharp edges) but I paint the uniforms/vehicle camo in acrylics. All other periods I undercoat in black enamel.
I generally use Miniature Paints (MP) and Colour Party Paints (CPP) for all my detail work, with some Humbrol acylics for AFV colours. I find MP are vibrant colours, and CPP are so thick they last for ages and ages.
Russian AFV - Humbrol 102
German AFV - Miniature Paints 7 Dark Grey
German AFV desert - Humbrol 94
British AFV Humbrol 75 or MP13 Deep Bronze Green, or with Humbrol 30 disruptive 2-tone green camo
British AFV desert - Humbrol 93 1940-41 + caunter scheme, Humbrol 121 Stone 1941-43
British Infantry - Humbrol 26 or Miniature Paints 87 Khaki
German Infantry - Miniature Paints 7 Dark Grey (for early-mid war) Humbrol 86 for later war
Russian infantry - Humbrol 29 or Miniature Paints 82 Dark Earth, Bronze green helmets
The French are complex, here's a cut and paste of my old painting guide (!) (H = Humbrol)
FRENCH 1939-1942
AFV: Sand yellow H93 overall with red H70 and green H80 mottle, or overall green H102. All white number plate on bow front, with blue-white-red tricolour to right.
FT-17 1939-40: sand H93 yellow overall + red H70 or H119 on upper works, card symbol + bttn umber on card at rear of hull side; white Bttn number is 11, 29, 30, 31, 33, 36 on hull side under turret.
R-35, H-35, H-39 of independent battalions in infantry divisions 1939-40: overall green H102, possibly 3-tone camo. Now recognition plate, some with card symbol without company shape on turret sides and hull right rear.
R-35, H-35, H-39, Somua S-35 of DLM, DLC - camouflaged. Large white number 01-97 on turret sides and rear, often roundel of red-white-blue on turret rear, cupola roof, hull sides forward. Card symbol with company shape on front sides of turret.
Char B1 series: 3-tone camouflage, white 3-digit number plate on plate below 75mm gun, on door on RHS hull. White name on turret sides and hull front below drivers visor with little tricolour underneath. Card symbol on both halves of turret rear, and hull rear RHS.CHQ tank had Coy # + a large C in white on hull rear LHS. 1st platoon large letter M or A or T on centre turret side and hull rear LHS and hill sides at back, 2nd platoon has N or B or U, 3rd platoon has O or C or X
Other DCR tanks similar to Char B1.
AMR-33, AMR-35: 3-tone camouflage, Roundel on turret rear, white # 01-60 on turret side, bow number plate.
Char D1: green H102, no markings
Char D2: green H80 + red H70 and yellow H93 camo, card symbols on turret sides, name on lower right bow plate.
FCM36: 3-tone camo horizontal, black number plate, no other markings.
FCM-2c heavy tanks 1940: overall green H102. white number 90-99 at front of hull side, white patch + name on hull side just underneath turret.
Panhard 178, P-16 H/T, armoured cars: green H102 overall, white number 01-20 on turret sides, roundel on turret rear, hull sides, glacis plate. Number plate on bow.
Renault UE carrier: green H102 overall + number plate on bow.
Armour Playing Card Symbols: 1st Coy: white circle, 2nd coy: white square; 3rd Coy: white triangle. 1st platoon spade, 2nd platoon: heart; 3rd platoon: diamond; 4th platoon: club. Symbols are blue for 1st bttn, red for 2nd bttn, yellow for 3rd bttn.
Vichy French Moroccan Spahis: French uniform in sand yellow, steel helmet, sand yellow great coat, dark brown webbing
Colonial Spahi cavalry 1939-43: overall H72 or CAO3, brown 170 for webbing, saddles, etc.
Colonial Algerian, Tunisian infantry 1939-43: overall stone H121, H84 webbing, khaki H72 rolls/packs/fez. Steel grey H87 helmet. Officers white, others tanned.
Free French Senegalese infantry: khaki H72 leggings & hat, brown H26 jacket, dk brown webbing, dark tan skin (hat is fez conical type)
Free French Moroccan Spahis 1942: white arab head-dress, brown H26 overall, dark brown webbing
Free French Goumier 1943: khaki turban or British helmet, American tropical uniform, greatcoat with black & brown vertical stripes, khaki webbing
Regular French infantry: Humbrol 159 overall, khaki dried earth webbing and pouches or leather H62 webbing and ammo pouches, brown shoes, Humbrol H165 helmet
I avoid Vallejo and any other paints in droppers, as you can't stir them.....
Mark
Based on my experience, over what is now approaching 60 years using all kinds of oil based and acrylic water soluble paints, I can only reiterate, avoid aerosol sprays for top coats on figures, because you will never achieve consistent coverage. Remember aerosols were intended, in the first place, for use on flat surfaces like car panels, not wargames figures with dozens of angles and undercuts. You can try to overcome this by spraying several coats from different angles, allowing each coat to dry between sprays. This is time consuming, which rather defeats the only advantage an aerosol has to offer.
Worse than that, if you do spray several coats, you'll find that paint will pool in some parts, with potential to obscure details, and still cover less well in others. Remember that by the time your figures are finished they will have several coats of paint – primer, undercoat and/or top coat and a protective varnish finish. The object should be to apply a few layers of paint as possible, as evenly as possible.
You can use an aerosol for priming figures if you like. If the primer misses some parts it doesn't matter so much because the undercoat, which you should apply with a brush, will solve that problem. In my experience though, applying a primer, usually white, with a brush covers the entire model in one even coat which is impossible to achieve with an aerosol.
There are other issues with aerosol sprays. You must spray from exactly the right distance and the problem is that the distances on the tin are for ideal circumstances that often do not exist. Too close and the paint will be too thick. Too distant and the paint will have already started to dry before it reaches the figures. Low humidity is a particular issue here. The hotter and drier the environment the faster the paint will dry 'in flight', so the closer you need to be to the target. That is why cars are sprayed in environments that are carefully controlled. If the paint is too dry when it hits the surface it will result in a textured, rough, finish which you'll need to remove and, frankly, don't bother trying. On a large flat object you'd sand it back but that is impossible on such small objects as wargames models. Solvents are the only solution.
Preparation of your figures is fundamentally important to the end result, and you need to give them every chance to help withstand repeated handling. Preparation involves removing any flash and mould lines, and then washing the figures in a mix of hot water and washing up liquid. This will remove any contaminants from manufacture and handling. Let them dry thoroughly. Now do not touch them unless you've got medical-type vinyl gloves on because the sweat from your hands will contaminate them and won't help the paint adhere. Not doing this is unlikely to lead to a major disaster but it is good practice.
Fix them to the wood strips as described elsewhere, but remember you've got to get them off when they are finished. I use a small dot of PVA. Next apply the primer. The colour is not important but I use white usually, a thinned mix of ordinary white acrylic paint and water, about 60/40. The purpose of this is twofold. First it reveals any imperfections overlooked during preparation and, second, it provides a foundation for subsequent coats of paint to key onto.
You don't have to go to all this trouble if you don't want to and there is an argument that it is unnecessary to either wash or prime figures. I disagree. Thorough preparation and priming, as you would on a car repair, or redecorating a room, is just common sense, to me, if you want the best and most durable finish possible.
Once the primer is dry you then apply undercoat. I use Vallejo acrylics exclusively. Make sure they are thoroughly mixed before dispensing. I recommend a wet palette. You can aid mixing by adding a small ball bearing to the bottle – cost less than £2 for 100 – to agitate the paint. You can retrieve the ball bearing when the bottle is empty, so they are reusable. Some people like to use a black undercoat but I find black makes colours very dull, yellows and some reds in particular, often requiring several applications. Remember that you want to apply as little paint as is necessary. I tend to undercoat with exactly the same colour as the top coat. This means that a top coat might not be necessary but I almost always do apply a top coat, particularly with colours where the pigment is less dense. Yellows and reds are, again, particular culprits in this context.
When thoroughly dry, I give the figures a sepia wash. I like a 50/50 sepia and water mix for most applications because it is less stark than black. Once the wash is dry, you can then highlight. Dry brushing (as dry as you can get it – do not use a wet brush) with white, or light grey, is effective on most 10mm figures. I tend to use Vallejo's Khaki Grey because it gives a 'dusty' effect which I like.
Finally, the finish. I apply a coat of gloss varnish. This seals the figure, and the paint job, from the outside world. Follow this with a coat of matt varnish, both applied with a No4 brush. The durable finish this provides will help resist constant handling.
Do not use aerosol spray varnishes under any circumstances. All the caveats that apply to aerosol paints also apply to aerosol varnishes, particularly matt varnish. In addition, high humidity affects matt aerosol varnishes which will 'fog' giving a dull, opaque, frosted, finish. The humidity can be an environment issue over which you have no control, or retained moisture in water based acrylics that haven't thoroughly dried. In both events it ruins all the hard work described above. There are various methods of retrieving the situation described on line but my advice is just avoid it by not using aerosols in the first place.
Sorry thought you were talking about tanks.
Dont use sprays
Uniform isn't uniform in colour - my DPM was different between jacket and trousers.
Any of the browns will pass for Russian and French, English Uniform (875) works well. The German Feild Grey WWII (be careful - dont use Feild Grey it's green) . Helmets are green again various shades fit. German helments are grey, use a different shade to the uniform though.
Yeah ... I'm still going to say sprays.
Perhaps I have lower standards, perhaps I'm just better with a spray can, but I am satisfied with the results. They can be more consistent than using a brush which perforce has different amounts of paint as it is used potentially leading to pooling or just a hard dry brushing if you don't carefully consider your brush load.
I do put a wash over my WWII figures, which does cover a huge amount of sin, and using black under the basecoat does give the impression of deep shadow if you miss with the can ... and the bits you're going to miss are the bits that in shadow.
My advice, try out a few things and see what makes you happy. If you're looking to get figures on a table that look pretty good from "wargaming distance" then that is a different challenge from getting figures able to be displayed on the Pendraken catalogue.
I avoid sprays due to the potential for peripheral damage - so need to work outside. However figure painting is very personal so work the way you want.
Quote from: fsn on 26 August 2021, 07:50:32 AM
My advice, try out a few things and see what makes you happy. If you're looking to get figures on a table that look pretty good from "wargaming distance" then that is a different challenge from getting figures able to be displayed on the Pendraken catalogue.
This is very good advice. Generally with 10mm you are aiming to paint armies - therefore your painting approach should reflect that - rather than being based on an approach to produce large scale display figures. It is also a hobby to the approach has to appeal to you, and please you in its execution. For two main reasons, firstly its a hobby and the whole point is to be enjoyable, and also if the approach is a lot of effort, you will find that you will keep putting off painting to do something else!
Good points, yes.
I only spray my varnish outside, so there are many days of the year when you have to wait for the weather to be agreeable, which in the NW of England is, how, shall we say, variable!
I've had more trouble with brush varnishes than spray ones - the other issue is time, if you're running a painting service or painting loads of units, hand brushing varnish can't keep up with the volume of painting done, so sourcing a good spray varnish has always been important for me. As most of my painted stuff is getting on for 20-30 years old and still looking good, I'd say my methodology is kinda working.
I am convinced it is the undercoating that is most important, ensuring complete coverage of the figure, as at a molecular level the paint 'shrinks' onto the metal as it dries, so a complete coverage is like a complete skin which will have greater bond strength than a patchy undercoat would have. Thus it's less likely to rub or chip when handled, and as happens more often than we think, mishandled. Hands up anyone whose dropped a base of figures on the floor or knocked part of the edge unit off the table! :D
I forgot to add that I leave 24 hours between undercoating and applying the first overall colours. Then same again after finishing, leave 24 hours before applying varnish.
Another point if you're painting a lot of figures, is to have a permanent painting table you can visit any time. Having to get out and pack away a painting area in a domestic household is such a pain! And batch painting by units provides greater incentive to get through them when you've an entire army to do. With a good routine in place, you can be basing a previoulsy finished unit whilst waiting for the current unit's paint to dry.
So much useful information ought to be archived somewhere!! :D :D
Unfortuneatly we don't have one on here. Files will be stored a long time though.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 26 August 2021, 06:19:17 AM
The German Feild Grey WWII (be careful - dont use Feild Grey it's green) .
Hi Kermit, Vallejo German Field Grey 70-830 is a shade of green which works well for German jackets c1940.
Quote from: John Cook on 26 August 2021, 10:04:42 AM
Hi Kermit, Vallejo German Field Grey 70-830 is a shade of green which works well for German jackets c1940.
Looks to green to me, but it is a matter of taste. I use the WWII specific one.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 26 August 2021, 10:08:30 AM
Looks to green to me, but it is a matter of taste. I use the WWII specific one.
Vallejo 'Model Colour 70.830 German Field Grey WWII' is WW2 specific. The 'feldgrau' of the German Model 1936 infantry tunic was a grey-green shade for which Vallejo 70.830 is about perfect, particularly for early war when the green was more pronounced. No, I'm not colour blind :) Trousers, on the other hand, were grey 'steingrau' and were a distinctly different hue from the tunic.
Sorry not to have responded to this interesting and in part amusing cornucopia of advice. Still digesting it. :D
Quote from: henjed on 27 August 2021, 10:52:58 AM
Sorry not to have responded to this interesting and in part amusing cornucopia of advice. Still digesting it. :D
Erm - CHEW FASTER.... Painting is very personal as is how much detail you use. You will find the best way for you. The colour blindness should cause no problems in WWII stuff, it's all drab colours greens browns and greys. One thing - don't rely on colourised photos, the colours will be wrong.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 27 August 2021, 11:10:45 AM
Erm - One thing - don't rely on colourised photos, the colours will be wrong.
I also find a lot of uniforms in museums are wrong as well. A lot if these items have been in closets and such like for years then are under the bright spotlights in the display cases
for years.
This also applies to vehicles. one Hetzer in a Museum in Belgium springs to mind.
regards
Sean
Quote from: sean66 on 27 August 2021, 12:23:19 PM
This also applies to vehicles. one Hetzer in a Museum in Belgium springs to mind.
regards
Sean
To say nothing of a Tiger in a certain museum on the South Coast !
Mark B said he avoids paints in a dropper as he cant stir them. I always found this a problem until I discovered glass bead "agitators on EBay. Buy your Vallejo paints [other brands are available] pop off the top, put in a bead, replace top and shake away to your hearts content. For larger containers use 2 beads.
Quote from: sean66 on 27 August 2021, 12:23:19 PM
I also find a lot of uniforms in museums are wrong as well. A lot if these items have been in closets and such like for years then are under the bright spotlights in the display cases
for years.
This also applies to vehicles. one Hetzer in a Museum in Belgium springs to mind.
regards
Sean
Yep, The Afrika Korps field caps started out a deep green, and bleached almost white. The other one I never realized until a while a go was the color of the 8th Army leather boots. Due to the abrasiveness of the terrain they quickly scuffed to almost completely white.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 25 August 2021, 02:11:36 PM
For German tanks it's dark Grey, Vallero do a colour called German Grey which looks about right. They may or may not have dark brown patches
Until 31st July 1940 all German vehicles including cars and trucks were painted Dark Grey with one third Maroon Brown. The order abolishing the application of Maroon Brown took effect after the end of the French Campaign.
Drew
See why you are quoting that however there is little photographic evidence. Since most photos are b/w it could well be that the colours have merged. It is the same effect in US 2nd AD which used dark green over olive drab. It doesn't show on B/W but is just visible in contemporay colour films. Breware of colourised film and photos.
There are hundreds of photographs from 1940 showing the two colour scheme. The issue being as you quite rightly quoted that often B&W pictures merged the Grey and Maroon Brown schemes into one shade. You just need to search out lots of pictures and you will find them in due course to prove what I stated is correct. Drew