Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Painting Diaries => Topic started by: paulr on 11 April 2021, 08:30:28 AM

Title: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 11 April 2021, 08:30:28 AM
Pierre the Shy managed to locate a working fax machine and sent an order off to Navwar :o

This gave me the opportunity to tag on an order for a few more WWII ships to round out my Pacific forces:
     USS West Virginia
     USS Maryland
     USS Tennessee
     USS California
     USS Pennsylvania

     HMAS Shropshire
     HMAS Arunta
     HMAS Warramunga

     IJN Abukuma
     IJN Nagara

These probably won't be used for the actual battle they fought in but there are a number of interesting what if scenarios they will allow me to fight

Pierre the Shy's order arrived a few days ago and he passed my ships on to me at our game last night :) :) :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 11 April 2021, 08:32:59 AM
In between washing and dry brushing HYW camps and varnishing HYW French today I managed to get the ships prepared, holes drilled for masts and the ships washed :) :) :)

These ships will make a nice little break from HYW
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 11 April 2021, 09:19:32 AM
Dont forget to check the Cammo on those.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 11 April 2021, 10:37:14 AM
This site is very handy for the US ships https://www.shipcamouflage.com/camouflage_database.htm (https://www.shipcamouflage.com/camouflage_database.htm)

The US BBs will be MS21 or MS32 (three different patterns)

The others take a bit more digging
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 11 April 2021, 11:33:43 AM
Ships changed colours frequently. I've got schemes for the Royal Navy BB's, BC's and CA's - coutesy of Raven and Roberts.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 11 April 2021, 12:05:58 PM
Shouldn't take too long to do the US stuff in Measure 21:

Vertical Surfaces: Navy Blue 5-N  All Vertical surfaces without exception.

Horizontal Surfaces: Deck Blue, 20-B.

MS 32 is 3 toned so slightly more work:

Vertical Surfaces: Paint all exposed vertical surfaces a pattern of: Light Gray 5-L, Ocean Gray 5-O, Black.

Horizontal Surfaces: Paint all decks and horizontal surfaces a pattern of: Deck Blue, 20-B, Ocean Gray 5-O.

I missed one US CA off the order I did....opps :-[ still Paul tells me he only has 7 others that can be used as a stand-ins  ;)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 11 April 2021, 02:15:14 PM
HMAS Shropshire, great ship.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 11 April 2021, 04:16:04 PM
Going off ON A COMPLETE TANGENT......

Which US ship was supposed to have disappeared*....and then reappeared with some of the crew 'melted' into the superstructure (?) after some weird experiment to see if 'they' could make a ship invisible ?

I think we should be told !.....Good grief ! :'( X_X X_X X_X

Cheers - Mr Conspiracy Theory  ;)

*I'm sure the ship's name began with 'E'.....Probably false memory syndrome again. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Westmarcher on 11 April 2021, 05:23:54 PM
Quote from: Techno II on 11 April 2021, 04:16:04 PM
Going off ON A COMPLETE TANGENT......

Which US ship was supposed to have disappeared*....and then reappeared with some of the crew 'melted' into the superstructure (?) after some weird experiment to see if 'they' could make a ship invisible ?

I think we should be told !.....Good grief ! :'( X_X X_X X_X

Cheers - Mr Conspiracy Theory  ;)

*I'm sure the ship's name began with 'E'.....Probably false memory syndrome again. ;D ;D ;D

The Philadelphia Experiment.  =)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 12 April 2021, 06:57:46 AM
I rather suspect that it's fictional Phil. Not seen the film so can't comment..
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 07:03:46 AM
Quote from: paulr on 11 April 2021, 08:30:28 AM
Pierre the Shy managed to locate a working fax machine and sent an order off to Navwar :o



Phew, the trouble I had finding a fax machine in Bangkok!
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 12 April 2021, 07:43:10 AM
Quote from: ianrs54 on 12 April 2021, 06:57:46 AM
I rather suspect that it's fictional Phil. Not seen the film so can't comment..

Oh......It HAS to be fictional, Ian......But it seems to be thought of as 'fact' by some conspiracy theorists.
The story rears its head again every few years or so.

The ship was called something like USS Eldridge.....(It was...I just looked it up.)

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: hammurabi70 on 12 April 2021, 08:46:34 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 07:03:46 AM
Phew, the trouble I had finding a fax machine in Bangkok!

Sorry to learn that. You can get free fax machine simulation through internet sites. Well you could but I have not used one in over 15 years.  It will send your material in fax format or receive and convert to printer requirements.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 08:49:12 AM
Thanks, but I did eventually track one down.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 12 April 2021, 09:00:44 AM
Quote from: hammurabi70 on 12 April 2021, 08:46:34 AM
Sorry to learn that. You can get free fax machine simulation through internet sites. Well you could but I have not used one in over 15 years.  It will send your material in fax format or receive and convert to printer requirements.

I checked this, and everything I could easily find (ie first page of a google search) was a subscription service.

    "Receive 10 faxes per month for $2.99".

Subscriptions have their place, but sending a one-off purchase request isn't it.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 12 April 2021, 09:31:10 AM
Quote from: pierre the shy on 11 April 2021, 12:05:58 PM
Shouldn't take too long to do the US stuff in Measure 21:
Vertical Surfaces: Navy Blue 5-N  All Vertical surfaces without exception.
Horizontal Surfaces: Deck Blue, 20-B.

MS 32 is 3 toned so slightly more work:
Vertical Surfaces: Paint all exposed vertical surfaces a pattern of: Light Gray 5-L, Ocean Gray 5-O, Black.
Horizontal Surfaces: Paint all decks and horizontal surfaces a pattern of: Deck Blue, 20-B, Ocean Gray 5-O.

I missed one US CA off the order I did....opps :-[ still Paul tells me he only has 7 others that can be used as a stand-ins  ;)

MS21 will be pretty straight forward :)
MS32 a bit trickier :-B

And the US cruiser that mysteriously didn't arrive, Indianapolis :o
Well her sister ship the Portland. I'll have to use one of the three of the preceding Northampton class or one for the four of the following New Orleans class I already have as a stand in

Quote from: ianrs54 on 11 April 2021, 11:33:43 AM
Ships changed colours frequently. I've got schemes for the Royal Navy BB's, BC's and CA's - coutesy of Raven and Roberts.

At the moment the the info I have on HMAS Shropshire in 1944 suggests three greys Mediterranean style camo using 507 A, MS 2, MS 3, with MS 4a decks

Any info on HMAS Arunta & Warramunga in 1944 would be appreciated. I've got a picture of each suggesting MS21 or similar and a two grey camo scheme
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 12 April 2021, 09:33:02 AM
Masts and cranes cut, bent and installed :) :)

Ships undercoated :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Orcs on 12 April 2021, 09:37:11 AM
In the US Office depot will send a single fax. I had to do it a couple of years ago as a guarantor form for my daughter while on holiday. It was cheap enough about 2 dollars.

It was the last thing I wanted to be doing on holiday .  Locate an office depot, drive there , email them the form. They print out the form, I fill it out and they fax it. Took best part of a morning out of our holiday. And then it was not needed as she earn't enough anyway. - Kids - Arggh!

It also came back to haunt me a couple of months back on a security check for work.  I filled out the forms and they came back asking why I had not included the address in my list of past residences.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 12 April 2021, 09:43:04 AM
Don't you just love organisations asking you questions they already know the answer to ~X(

A few years ago I was dealing with the investment part on my bank, they needed proof of address
I had to go into a branch of the bank and get them to print out a copy of a bank statement so they could scan it and email it to the investment part of the same back X_X
I suppose I should be grateful they didn't need to fax it ;)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 12 April 2021, 11:34:17 AM
$BANK needed to see a recent payslip, photocopy absolutely not acceptable.

Me: "My payslips are emailed to me as a PDF".
Bank: "Oh, just print that out and send it to us".
Me: "So, how could you tell the difference between a printed out PDF and a photocopy of a physical payslip?"
Bank: "Ummmm . . . . "
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Ithoriel on 12 April 2021, 12:04:07 PM
Had similar while trying to wrap up my Dad's estate recently.

Had to be a fax or else come to the local office and hand in a hard copy. Absolutely no emailing allowed.

Contacted the local office to see when I could come and hand it in.

Due to the covid outbreak please email it in rather than coming in person.

Doh! Left hands, right hands, amirite?

Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Westmarcher on 12 April 2021, 12:33:18 PM
Some great thread derailment going on ....    :P
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: fred. on 12 April 2021, 12:36:52 PM
There are email to fax (and fax to email) services available - not sure if they can be used on an ad hoc basis.

Considering most fax machines these days are scanners - I really can't see what the difference is between the 'fax' scanning and sending it as a fax, and the 'fax' scanning it and you attaching it to an email to send. Legacy processes.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: John Cook on 12 April 2021, 12:53:16 PM
Quote from: paulr on 11 April 2021, 08:30:28 AM
Pierre the Shy managed to locate a working fax machine and sent an order off to Navwar :o

Navwar appear to be stuck in the 1970s.  They have a website but don't have a facility for on-line orders and only accept orders by mail or fax.  Mind you, their system, such as it is, works.  I have more than fifty of their Elizabethan 1:1200 ships and their service is exemplary.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 12 April 2021, 01:08:32 PM
Well he is in his 90's
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 12 April 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Quote from: John Cook on 12 April 2021, 12:53:16 PM
Navwar appear to be stuck in the 1970s.  They have a website but don't have a facility for on-line orders and only accept orders by mail or fax.

Or you can go to the physical shop, only open for 3½ hours every Saturday afternoon.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 01:17:38 PM
As has been pointed out, his service is quick, cheap,  and reliable, and I'm more than happy with the models I've got from him.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 12 April 2021, 01:21:39 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 01:17:38 PM
As has been pointed out, his service is quick, cheap,  and reliable, and I'm more than happy with the models I've got from him.

Oh absolutely. Fully concur.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: John Cook on 12 April 2021, 01:50:57 PM
Quote from: Raider4 on 12 April 2021, 01:13:54 PM
Or you can go to the physical shop, only open for 3½ hours every Saturday afternoon.

Just a bit far for me and, in these 'interesting' times, would it be an essential journey?  Be that as it may, I enjoy the walk to the post box and the nostalgia of writing a cheque.  Anyway, the truth be told Navwar's 'flash to bang' time is often faster that ordering stuff elsewhere on-line.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: hammurabi70 on 12 April 2021, 03:35:29 PM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 12 April 2021, 09:00:44 AM
I checked this, and everything I could easily find (ie first page of a google search) was a subscription service.

    "Receive 10 faxes per month for $2.99".

Subscriptions have their place, but sending a one-off purchase request isn't it.

My page 1: https://www.fax.plus/free-fax/

Not tested so I cannot comment on the service.

The proprietor has not updated because he does not see any need as it works for him.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 12 April 2021, 09:17:22 PM
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 12 April 2021, 09:00:44 AM
I checked this, and everything I could easily find (ie first page of a google search) was a subscription service.

    "Receive 10 faxes per month for $2.99".

Subscriptions have their place, but sending a one-off purchase request isn't it.

Exactly 👍 l only wanted to send one two page fax... eventually found a fax in the local chemists/pharmacy mainly used to send and receive prescriptions..but they still offering a fax service so all good in the end. Having tried several places that advertise faxing services but which no longer provide them... including a branch of NZ Post who seemingly took exception to my suggestion to update their website to show that they no longer offer the service.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 12 April 2021, 09:28:25 PM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 12 April 2021, 01:17:38 PM
As has been pointed out, his service is quick, cheap,  and reliable, and I'm more than happy with the models I've got from him.

Agree 100% Kitty...the service is very good and the range is excellent...if it floats and is armed then chances are Navwar make it  :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 13 April 2021, 08:59:45 AM
And if they don't make it they make something that looks very similar :)

Agree on the quality, range & service :-bd =D> :-bd
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 15 April 2021, 11:16:59 AM
Research done on the ships with some very useful assistance from Pierre the Shy on the Australian destroyers :)

American
West Virginia    MS 32 / 7d - Medium Pattern System
MarylandMS 21 - Navy Blue System
TennesseeMS 32 / 1D - Medium Pattern System
CaliforniaMS 32 / 16D - Medium Pattern System
PennsylvaniaMS 21 - Navy Blue System
Australian
ShropshireRN Mediterranean three tone grey
AruntaMS11 - Sea Blue System
WarramungaMS11 - Sea Blue System
Japanese
AbukumaYokosuka grey
NagaraMaizuru grey
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Orcs on 16 April 2021, 12:38:35 AM
THe concern with Navwar is Tonys age. How long will he continue working, and what will happen to the range when he stops.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Aksu on 16 April 2021, 04:16:22 AM
Quote from: Orcs on 16 April 2021, 12:38:35 AM
THe concern with Navwar is Tonys age. How long will he continue working, and what will happen to the range when he stops.

I've had a great time chatting with him when visiting the shop. It is quite a different experience than going to a modern flashy establishment.

Re-tangenting to WW2 wargaming, which rules do you chaps use when playing with them Pacific boats?
Cheers,
Aksu
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 16 April 2021, 05:58:41 AM
Quote from: Aksu on 16 April 2021, 04:16:22 AM
I've had a great time chatting with him when visiting the shop. It is quite a different experience than going to a modern flashy establishment.

Re-tangenting to WW2 wargaming, which rules do you chaps use when playing with them Pacific boats?
Cheers,
Aksu

We use GQ 1 and 2 rules Aksu, they always give a good game and are very easy to pick up gain if you haven't played for a while. While GQ3 is a more recent set of rules with (compretively speaking) lots more bells and whistles we prefer the older version as they make even quite large games playable in a single session.

Quote from: Orcs on 16 April 2021, 12:38:35 AM
THe concern with Navwar is Tonys age. How long will he continue working, and what will happen to the range when he stops.

Yes Orcs that is one reason why we have made several reasonably large orders over recent years. With the latest order I think we have just about everything we'll need 1/3000th wise. 

 
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 April 2021, 10:36:52 AM
Quote from: pierre the shy on 16 April 2021, 05:58:41 AM
We use GQ 1 and 2 rules Aksu, they always give a good game and are very easy to pick up gain if you haven't played for a while. While GQ3 is a more recent set of rules with (compretively speaking) lots more bells and whistles we prefer the older version as they make even quite large games playable in a single session.

We use a ground scale of 1cm : 200 yards rather than 4" : 1,000 yards as suggested in the rules for 1:2,400 ships

This gives a more usable ground scale, 30,000 yards is 150cm rather than over 300cm and means ships move in centimeters half their speed in knots.
Ranges are much easier to convert to yards, 30cm being 6,000 yards for example
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 April 2021, 10:39:41 AM
Quote from: pierre the shy on 16 April 2021, 05:58:41 AM
Yes Orcs that is one reason why we have made several reasonably large orders over recent years. With the latest order I think we have just about everything we'll need 1/3000th wise. 
:o :o :o

But I've only got 5 pre-Dreadnought navies of the 1910s, and none of the major ones :-S

And no navies of the 1860s or 1880s or 1900s... :-S
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 April 2021, 10:44:30 AM
First vertical colour done for all ships :)

For MS11, MS22 and the Japanese this is the only major vertical colour #:-S

The rest, 4 ships, have 2 more colours in their vertical camouflage patterns :!!
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: OldenBUA on 16 April 2021, 11:13:33 AM
I have GQ1 and GQ2, and they give a good game. But if you want a different experience, you could take a look at Naval War. It's a free ruleset, which adds some interesting ideas to playing out naval engagements.

https://www.naval-war.com/
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 16 April 2021, 11:18:41 AM
Quote from: Aksu on 16 April 2021, 04:16:22 AM
. . . which rules do you chaps use when playing with them Pacific boats?

I've used the original Victory at Sea, still available from Wargame Vault (https://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?products_id=24097&site=&currency=GBP&products_id=24097). It's definitely improved by using David Manley's suggestions (https://archive.ph/20120630225042/http://www.btinternet.com/~david.manley/naval/VAS/VAS.html).
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 April 2021, 11:25:47 AM
Quote from: OldenBUA on 16 April 2021, 11:13:33 AM
I have GQ1 and GQ2, and they give a good game. But if you want a different experience, you could take a look at Naval War. It's a free ruleset, which adds some interesting ideas to playing out naval engagements.

https://www.naval-war.com/

Definitely looks to be a different experience :)
A lot of effort has gone into a free set of rules
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 16 April 2021, 02:34:04 PM
Quote from: OldenBUA on 16 April 2021, 11:13:33 AM
But if you want a different experience, you could take a look at Naval War. It's a free ruleset, which adds some interesting ideas to playing out naval engagements.

https://www.naval-war.com/

"Please register (for free!) to be able to download the Rulebook, Orders of Battle, Datacards, Quick reference sheet, etc."

For the love of $DEITY, why? If everything's free anyway, why on earth do I need to create an account and find another username & password to remember?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: DecemDave on 16 April 2021, 03:02:21 PM
Quote from: Raider4 on 16 April 2021, 02:34:04 PM
"Please register (for free!) to be able to download the Rulebook, Orders of Battle, Datacards, Quick reference sheet, etc."

For the love of $DEITY, why? If everything's free anyway, why on earth do I need to create an account and find another username & password to remember?


So they can email you with not so free goodies and sell your data to other companies that wish to target their sales.  Who will also sell it to another company that will cold call you about accidents and double glazing and will sell it to a bloke on the web who bombards you endlessly with junk mail, scam texts and nuisance calls.

What are you waiting for?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: OldenBUA on 16 April 2021, 05:04:47 PM
No. None of that. The author of the game, who I met in person, likes to know who is interested in his game. And likes nothing better than getting feedback on it. Registration is not needed for that, but it is his game and his site, so he might be excused for this. A lot of hours went into making this game.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Aksu on 16 April 2021, 05:50:26 PM
Quote from: paulr on 16 April 2021, 10:36:52 AM
We use a ground scale of 1cm : 200 yards rather than 4" : 1,000 yards as suggested in the rules for 1:2,400 ships

This gives a more usable ground scale, 30,000 yards is 150cm rather than over 300cm and means ships move in centimeters half their speed in knots.
Ranges are much easier to convert to yards, 30cm being 6,000 yards for example

Sounds like a good idea. I like GQ1 and 2 a lot, v 3 is a bit fiddly. For a more rivetycounty experience I've used D Manley's Stations Manned and Ready. A bit pricey with all the data books, unfortunately.
Cheers,
Aksu
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 17 April 2021, 05:13:10 AM
Minor panic over :o #:-S
I got out the remaining sheet sytrene I use for ship bases and realised that I didn't have enough left to base the ships I'd ordered ~X(
I hunted around and found an off cut that was large enough to do a cruiser base, this let me get the other bases out of the remaining sheet #:-S

Major painting now finished (second & third vertical colours and main & second horizontal colours) :) :)

Details, touch ups & wash to do :!!
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 17 April 2021, 11:54:58 PM
Bases sanded and washed :) :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 18 April 2021, 05:25:27 AM
Details & touch ups done on the ships :)

I managed to avoid too many iterations of the touch up hull ... touch up deck cycle #:-S
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 18 April 2021, 08:22:19 AM
First side of bases painted :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 19 April 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Other side of the bases painted :)

Ships washed :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 19 April 2021, 11:24:57 AM
Quote from: paulr on 19 April 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Ships washed :)

The Med is VEERY poluted  :d
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 April 2021, 08:48:20 AM
Pierre the Shy has very kindly printed the labels for these ships :)

Hopefully I will get them based on Sunday, up after I collect the labels at our game on Saturday evening
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 01 May 2021, 11:18:43 PM
I collected the labels last night and while cutting them up this morning noticed something didn't seem right :-/

The flag and ships name etc had ended up in the top left rather then the bottom left corner of the label #-o :-[

I've asked Pierre the Shy to kindly reprint them
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 15 May 2021, 03:15:25 AM
Pierre the Shy kindly reprint the labels :)

I managed to get them glued to the bases during the week :)

I've glued magnetic vinyl to the bottom of the bases today :)

The ships may even get based tomorrow :!!
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 May 2021, 03:07:03 AM
Used white pencil to mark out the main wakes :)

Grabbed my white gel pen to do the highlights, its dried out :o ~X(

I don't know, its only been 16 months since I last used it for the cargo ships Asku kindly 3D printed...

Anyone got any suggestions for getting them flowing before I buy another one during the week :-\
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 16 May 2021, 07:01:55 AM
Hi, Paul.

Had a quick Google, and it depends what the medium of the gel (?) is.

If it's Xantham gum........Hydrogen peroxide will apparently thin that......At least that should be available (and relatively cheap) from a pharmacy....Which concentration you need is another matter.

Tragacanth gum is allegedly thinned down with water...even cheaper. :D

Personally, I've never heard of either of those gums.....So I've not got the slightest clue whether the info I've gleaned is correct !!

Hope it might help, though.

Cheers - Phil. :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 23 May 2021, 09:08:44 AM
Decided it was easier to buy a new white gel pen ;)

Wakes highlighted :)

Ships glued to bases :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 25 May 2021, 04:24:52 AM
Ships varnished :)

As expected the spray varnish has clouded on the labels so they will need varnish brushed on tomorrow :-w
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 26 May 2021, 04:41:25 AM
Varnish brushed on the bases :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 27 May 2021, 12:04:19 AM
Be interesting to see these ships painted up in true Shakespearen fashion......

Measure for measure?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 May 2021, 12:06:04 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 May 2021, 05:18:16 AM
Waited patiently for the sun to move round to the right spot for photography on a beautiful cloudless late autumn day that had started with a hard frost :-w

A few clouds built up from the south west and. of course, covered the sun when it got to the right position for photography ~X(
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 06 June 2021, 08:27:25 AM
Weather not cooperating for these piccies :(

Forecast is cloudy for 3 days, fine for 3 days, rain for 3-4 days :-w

Guess which 3 days I'm almost certainly in the office  ~X(
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 07 June 2021, 08:47:19 AM
The low misty clouds burnt off by afternoon leaving only light high cloud so...
Quote from: pierre the shy on 27 May 2021, 12:04:19 AM
Be interesting to see these ships painted up in true Shakespearen fashion......

Measure for measure?

Measure 11 HMAS Warramunga & HMAS Arunta

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230011947_709e66a98b_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m42cJ4)

Measure 21 USS Pennsylvania & USS Maryland

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230929858_61b8c28ef8_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m46UA7)

Measure 32 USS Tennessee (MS32/1D), USS California (MS32/16D), USS West Virginia (MS32/7D)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230720401_e39bf8dcc9_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m45QjM)

Mediterranean scheme HMAS Shropshire

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51230011922_552f3e5f4f_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m42cHC)

Japanese Greys IJN Nagara (Maizuru grey) & IJN Abukuma (Yokosuka grey)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51231489144_8802130505_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2m49LQY)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 07 June 2021, 08:50:46 AM
Very nice indeed....
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 07 June 2021, 12:51:44 PM
Love those.
HMS Salop is brilliant.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 07 June 2021, 12:59:25 PM
Problem with ships is that they change colour every few months, salt water is very corrosive !!!
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Steve J on 07 June 2021, 08:59:15 PM
Great work Paul 8).
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 08 June 2021, 08:03:48 AM
Very nice work, Paul !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 10 December 2021, 08:12:14 PM
I've started work on a few more WWII ships for the Pacific

The USS Portland that didn't quite get ordered with the above #-o

And some US, Dutch and Japanese destroyers primarily for our campaign to mark the 80th anniversary of the Japanese attack on the Malay barrier and the Dutch East Indies

Last night I prepared all the allied ships including drilling holes and adding masts  :)  :)  :)

I also converted  one of the US 4 stackers to an APD by removing the two forward stacks :-B

This morning they were undercoated :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Orcs on 10 December 2021, 09:38:31 PM
Very Nice.

How did you do the labels?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 11 December 2021, 03:07:41 AM
I create them in Word. The label covers the whole base and is a suitable blue. The text is white and small pictures are inserted for the flags.

I add the wakes using white gel pens and white pencil before gluing the model in place with PVA.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 11 December 2021, 03:11:47 AM
US & Dutch ships painted and touched up :)

Ship damage sheets (SDS) and labels prepared in Word :)  :)

Now I need to move onto the Japanese  :!!

I also need to find somewhere that has 2mm sheet styrene in stock ~X(
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: pierre the shy on 11 December 2021, 03:58:35 AM
Unfortunately at the time of the East Indies campaign that we are going to be fighting over the next little while Paul's very nicely painted USN battleships shown above are either on the bottom of Pearl Harbour or still repairing battle damage from the December 7 attack  :(

Looks like we are going to use the historical set up so the ABDA commander can realistically only try and limit the level of the Japanese victory with the hodge-podge of cruisers and destroyers available to him.

I'm doing up the (very) few extra Navwar Dutch and RN ships that we need at the same time.

"Damn the torpedoes......Four bells, Captain Drayton, go ahead. Jouett, full speed."





       
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 12 December 2021, 07:19:41 AM
US and Dutch ships washed :)

Japanese destroyers cleaned up :)

Unfortunately 2 of the Kagerō class have miscast bows ~X(
This is the first time I've ever had significant miscasting from NavWar :o
Time to break out some putty and see if I can recreate a couple of destroyer bows :-SS  X_X
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 14 December 2021, 01:59:32 AM
I did a reasonable job with the putty on one of the Kagerō bows :)
I've sanded this down into what hopefully looks like the appropriate shape :-B

The other was a dogs breakfast once dried but fortunately come off cleanly X_X  #:-S
I've applied a new lot of putty that will hopefully be a better job :-SS

I've drilled holes for the masts and will add them once I've got the bow sorted :-w
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 16 December 2021, 07:03:52 AM
I've had a second go at the bow that didn't go well and it seems to have gone ok this time #:-S

I've also glued the masts in :)

Now I need the rain to to let up so I can get a chance to undercoat the ships :-w

Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 17 December 2021, 07:01:06 AM
Rain has let up :)

Japanese destroyers undercoated :)  :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 17 December 2021, 10:56:41 PM
Japanese destroyers' vertical surfaces base coated :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 18 December 2021, 08:04:56 AM
Decks, funnel tops and ship's boats done :)  :)  :)

Deck & vertical surfaces to touch ups to do @-)

Then wash...
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 18 December 2021, 06:18:55 PM
Decks and a couple of ships' boats touched up :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 18 December 2021, 08:25:35 PM
Vertical surfaces touched up :)

It looks like I've avoided the vertical surfaces, deck, vertical surfaces, deck... touch up cycle #:-S 
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 19 December 2021, 08:09:46 AM
Japanese destroyers washed :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 19 December 2021, 11:20:44 AM
Why, were they dirty?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 19 December 2021, 11:25:44 AM
Obviously weak willed Will, I resisted it !  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 20 December 2021, 07:56:48 AM
 X_X  X_X
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 20 December 2021, 10:26:05 AM
I remember the Java Sea campaign being discussed many years ago.

In the classic manner of naval gaming whatifferry, conversation strayed onto balancing the battle.

I remember three suggestions:

1. Deploy the Dutch submarine force from Surarbaya (Soerabaja) and hope it disrupts the Japanese before battle.
2. Include Force Z with the Indomitable, give the Japanese land based air cover and a small carrier like Ryujo.
3. Include Force Z as it appeared (Prince of Wales and Repulse), and give Japanese a small submarine patrol.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 21 December 2021, 04:46:26 AM
Force Z, without Indomitable, was included but has already been sunk as part of the starting conditions X_X

There has been an ANZAC Cruiser Squadron based in Darwin added to add some balance :-B

The victory conditions for the Japanese require capturing ALL their objectives to at least get a draw ;)

Both sides seem to be struggling with the various limitations imposed by the campaign in Turn 1... ~X(

I'll start a thread to record events when there is more I can safely report :-$
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 December 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Any photos of boats?
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 21 December 2021, 05:54:29 PM
I've run out of 2mm sheet styrene, the last batch of ships used up my very last bits :o

None of the hobby shops I've been to so far have in it stock :o  :o

So I've nothing to base them on ~X(

I've now finished work for the year so will go on a hunt including hobby and artist supply shops today :!!

I can probably get a sheet at a sign writers supply shop but an approximately 2m x 1m sheet is probably a bit more than I need ;)

Too make matters worse I'm almost out of undercoat as well X_X
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 22 December 2021, 10:10:53 PM
I managed to location some sheet styrene <:-P

It was at a Railway Hobby shop 31km (19 miles) away

After what turned out to be a pleasant one hour drive on a nice sunny day, I now have the second to last modeling sized sheet of 2mm styrene in the Wellington region #:-S
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 23 December 2021, 12:57:59 AM
Ship bases cut out, sanded & washed :)  :)  :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 23 December 2021, 09:04:53 AM
First side of ship bases painted :)
 
Once the ships are based I'll take and share some piccies :!!
 
Meanwhile several pictures taken for DBA army lists and Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 23 December 2021, 10:18:33 AM
Hurrah
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 23 December 2021, 10:17:54 PM
Second side of ship bases painted :)

Labels cut out :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 24 December 2021, 02:55:36 AM
Magnetic vinyl glued to bases :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 24 December 2021, 07:13:39 AM
Labels glued to bases :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 24 December 2021, 09:10:41 PM
Stop arsing about, and post some pics, before your daylight hours cut down too much.

Cheers - Phil. ;)

Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 24 December 2021, 10:41:05 PM
 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 25 December 2021, 10:52:31 PM
Wakes done :)

Ships glued to bases :)

Should be varnished this evening, once glue is fully dry :-w

Forecast for next 3 days is cloudy, rain, showers... not looking good for photography until Thursday :-w  :-w  :-w
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 26 December 2021, 07:52:03 PM
Ships varnished last night :)

Given the large area of printed label compared to the small ships and my current spray varnish's propensity to fog on labels and flags I decided to use brush on varnish

This reminded me why I prefer spray varnish, a few quick sprays is so much easier than brushing it on
Holding them while getting to all areas and avoiding touching already varnished areas was also a challenge

I checked them this morning and found another reason to prefer spray varnish, coverage ~X(

Varnish touched up so the gloss wash doesn't show :-w
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: fred. on 26 December 2021, 09:42:35 PM
Can you brush varnish the labels before spraying?

With the UK weather I've moved to brush on base coat and varnish for some months now. 
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 December 2021, 04:29:37 AM
An interesting idea Fred, I might give it a try next time :-\
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 December 2021, 04:33:38 AM
The weather was sunnier than forecast, so a couple of picces of my extra ships

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51777971168_369010970e_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mTrCUQ)

Allies – from top left to bottom right
Little APD-4 (converted to a fast transport by having the forward boilers and machinery removed to make more space for troops etc)
Paul Jones flagship of Destroyer Squadron 29 of the US Asiatic 'Fleet'
Portland Heavy Cruiser missed from my previous order

Destroyer Divisions 57 & 58
Whipple, Edsall, Alden, Parrott
I already have the other four destroyers of these Divisions

Destroyer Division 59
Pillsbury, Peary, Pope, John D Ford
All the US destroyers are old Clemson class four stack destroyers

Dutch Admiralen class Destroyers
Van Nes, Van Galen, Van Ghent, Evertsen
Van Galen returned to Holland from the Dutch East Indies on 8 May 1940, she was sunk on 10 May by German aircraft on route to bombard the Rotterdam airfield captured by the Germans

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51777971188_4fa0087be6_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mTrCVb)

Japanese

Kamikaze class Destroyers
Yūnagi, Hatakaze, Harukaze, Asakaze

Fubuki class Destroyers
Ayanami, Amagiri, Uranami, Shirayuki

Mutsuki class Destroyers
Fumizuki, Uzuki, Yayoi, Mutsuki

2 Minekaze & 2 Mutsuki class Destroyers
Tachikaze, Shiokaze, Yūzuki, Mochizuki

Kagerō class Destroyers
Maikaze, Amatsukaze, Yukikaze, Hayashio
I had to recreate the bows of two of the four Kagerōs. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to identify the two with recreated bows
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Techno II on 27 December 2021, 05:58:14 AM
Very, very nice, Paul ! :-bd

Cheers - Phil :)
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 27 December 2021, 07:22:27 AM
Looking good !
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: fred. on 27 December 2021, 08:14:13 AM
They look great Paul - good stuff. 
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Raider4 on 27 December 2021, 09:56:59 AM
QuoteShips varnished last night 
Read this as 'vanished', and wondered if you were incorporating the Philadelphia Experiment into your game . . .

Your ships look excellent, btw. Always had a soft spot for ABDA, as a) it's self-contained, and b) a lost cause.

Would be different if Force Z arrived intact, esp. if it includes Indomitable.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 27 December 2021, 10:56:15 AM
Excellent work! Worth the wait.
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 December 2021, 07:03:46 PM
QuoteRead this as 'vanished', and wondered if you were incorporating the Philadelphia Experiment into your game . . .

Your ships look excellent, btw. Always had a soft spot for ABDA, as a) it's self-contained, and b) a lost cause.

Would be different if Force Z arrived intact, esp. if it includes Indomitable.

I strongly suspect Pierre the Shy strongly agrees with your comment on Force Z as he's commanding the Allies in our Defending the Malay Barrier campaign ;) 
Title: Re: A few WWII ships for the Pacific
Post by: paulr on 27 December 2021, 07:20:00 PM
I've just added the additional ships to my spreadsheet that keeps track of what I have  :o  X_X  ;D

WWII Naval 1/3,000
  Allied  Japanese      Total
Battleships
17
13
30
Carriers
14
9
23
Cruisers
36
25
61
Destroyers
82
57
139
Transports
43
Totals
149
104
296