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Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Requests => Topic started by: steve_holmes_11 on 06 July 2020, 08:34:37 AM



Title: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 06 July 2020, 08:34:37 AM

Economic policy
Sunak considers £500 vouchers for all UK adults to spend in Covid-hit firms

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/05/sunak-considers-500-vouchers-for-all-uk-adults-to-spend-in-covid-hit-firms (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/05/sunak-considers-500-vouchers-for-all-uk-adults-to-spend-in-covid-hit-firms)

Initial indications suggest this will target Hospitality and face to face retail.

At £500 per adult and £250 per child, I'd happily drive down to Middlesborough, if a click and collect type service could be arranged.



Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: ianrs54 on 06 July 2020, 08:50:59 AM
Heard it yesterday on BH, nice idea, probably use for a few toys ! ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: FierceKitty on 06 July 2020, 09:07:22 AM
I have British ancestors; I'll be ready to do my bit to help, if they want to send me one of those vouchers....


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: ianrs54 on 06 July 2020, 09:54:59 AM
That would be 500 Baht though


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 06 July 2020, 03:28:56 PM
That's my haircuts sorted out .............Forever, really.

Cheers - Mr Scruffy.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: ianrs54 on 06 July 2020, 03:57:11 PM
Phil - easy sorted, razor and gone.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Leon on 06 July 2020, 06:25:48 PM
That's interesting, I'd not heard about that.  Hopefully folks can spend that in places like pubs, restaurants, etc and get those businesses back on an even footing.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Orcs on 06 July 2020, 08:56:50 PM
That's interesting, I'd not heard about that.  Hopefully folks can spend that in places like pubs, restaurants, etc and get those businesses back on an even footing.

Not sure I am quite ready to go to a Pub yet

Apparently one of the pubs near me the Black Horse in Tring ,had a covid inspector came around and wasn't impressed. No one was paying any attention to the one way system but more importantly there was 160 people in there.

Its not a very big pub and mainly frequented by they younger generation


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Dave Fielder on 06 July 2020, 10:54:00 PM
£500.00 = 17.05 Pendraken Army Packs!! I need another lockdown to sort out that much painting ....


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 07 July 2020, 12:28:38 AM
£500.00 = 17.05 Pendraken Army Packs!! I need another lockdown to sort out that much painting ....

I could do the whole Indian Ocean in Irregular Wars.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: flamingpig0 on 07 July 2020, 12:41:22 AM
If it applies to all high street shops I am going to buy shares in Games Workshop/Warhammer


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Orcs on 07 July 2020, 01:17:19 AM
Sorry to pour cold water on this, but I am not so sure Its a good idea.

Personally I feel the government would be better off using it to subsidise the expenses of the businesses that are having real problems - Music venues, restaurants, Pubs etc, rather than giving people vouchers or even worse actual money to spend.

Those who are better off will probably use it as a subsidy on going out and save their own money. Not spending much more than they do normally. Thus negating its effects.

A good proportion of the others are likely to blow it very quickly and end up causing all sorts of problems - lack of social distancing, drunk and disorderly etc. etc.  While this might help the businesses they spend the money in the increase in cost to the economy in visits to A & E and police intervention is going to offset the boost to the economy.




 


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Ithoriel on 07 July 2020, 02:15:48 AM
A £500 voucher to spend in bricks and mortar establishments .... I'll be happy to save the Treasury five hundred quid and shred it on arrival. Don't see me visiting shops, cinemas, restaurants or pubs for a long time to come.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: FierceKitty on 07 July 2020, 02:57:49 AM
The last few months have been something of a boom period for restaurants here; far more orders for home delivery.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Leon on 07 July 2020, 03:18:14 AM
I'm with Orcs that I won't be going into a pub for a very long time (although I wasn't exactly a regular pre-Covid!)  But we'd use it on some takeaway pub grub from some of the ones delivering, maybe give some of it to friends who are in bands and can't play gigs, etc. 

Overall the government stimulus has been pretty good, all things considered.  Giving support to the ground level businesses is always the best option as you'll see that money recouped in a much quicker timescale.  We've used ours to buy raw materials, invest in more sculpts and pay staff wages.  I'd imagine that most of the other support has been spent on similar things, or equipment and machinery if they're larger firms.  Staff will then use their wages to buy food, mortgage/rent, clothes, gadgets, toy soldiers, etc.  All of these things incur either VAT or income taxes which the treasury will receive at stages over the next 24 months and the initial economic impact will be reduced over a short space of time. 

Sadly when you give handouts to the big corporations they will inevitably use it to either ringfence profits, invest in property portfolios or hand it off to a small group of shareholders. And as we all know, many of them will push money through low-tax loopholes to save themselves from corporation tax.  So the initial support money gets siphoned off in a variety of ways and doesn't make its way back through the taxation system to refill the government coffers.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 07 July 2020, 07:21:33 AM
Sorry to pour cold water on this, but I am not so sure Its a good idea.

Personally I feel the government would be better off using it to subsidise the expenses of the businesses that are having real problems - Music venues, restaurants, Pubs etc, rather than giving people vouchers or even worse actual money to spend.

Those who are better off will probably use it as a subsidy on going out and save their own money. Not spending much more than they do normally. Thus negating its effects.

A good proportion of the others are likely to blow it very quickly and end up causing all sorts of problems - lack of social distancing, drunk and disorderly etc. etc.  While this might help the businesses they spend the money in the increase in cost to the economy in visits to A & E and police intervention is going to offset the boost to the economy.

You realy ought to address your concerns to: The Chancelleor of the Exchequer, 11 Downing Street, That London.   ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 07 July 2020, 07:42:49 AM
Let's see if it actually happens ! ;)

Like Leon....very unlikely to go to the pub....But a few takeaways would be a treat.
There are some local shops, that would definitely have been hit, that I'd be happy to use 'vouchers' in.

Mark's right in the point that it'll save some folk money....rather than spending their own.

Perfect example for me, would be buying a replacement oven from the local 'electrical' shop.....That'll save us a few hundred quid, which we would have had to spend at some stage.
Ooooo....and a new chainsaw, from the 'garden' shop in Cardigan ! :D :D

Like I say.....I'll believe it, if, and when, it happens.

Cheers - Phil :)



Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: ianrs54 on 07 July 2020, 07:48:34 AM
Course the Welsh and Scotish Govts will probably opt out.... :'(


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: flamingpig0 on 07 July 2020, 11:41:07 AM

Sadly when you give handouts to the big corporations they will inevitably use it to either ringfence profits, invest in property portfolios or hand it off to a small group of shareholders. And as we all know, many of them will push money through low-tax loopholes to save themselves from corporation tax.  So the initial support money gets siphoned off in a variety of ways and doesn't make its way back through the taxation system to refill the government coffers.
Yep


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Steve J on 07 July 2020, 02:12:06 PM
As a family we eat out to celebrate birthdays (only because for our autistic son it has become part of his routine), the odd special occasion etc. We don't go to the pub. We have everything we need. So unless the vouchers would apply to IKEA or B&Q, where most of our purchases might go, they would be of no use to us.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Dave Fielder on 07 July 2020, 07:38:48 PM
I wonder if Pendraken could outsource to IKEA and/or B&Q ...


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 07 July 2020, 10:31:09 PM
Let's see if it actually happens ! ;)

Like Leon....very unlikely to go to the pub....But a few takeaways would be a treat.
There are some local shops, that would definitely have been hit, that I'd be happy to use 'vouchers' in.

Mark's right in the point that it'll save some folk money....rather than spending their own.

Perfect example for me, would be buying a replacement oven from the local 'electrical' shop.....That'll save us a few hundred quid, which we would have had to spend at some stage.
Ooooo....and a new chainsaw, from the 'garden' shop in Cardigan ! :D :D

Like I say.....I'll believe it, if, and when, it happens.

Cheers - Phil :)

Like you, I'm inclined to think it was a nice soundbite, which will quickly be consigned to the dustbin of history.

It won't stop me dreaming about a free monkey to spend on armies. (That'll buy a lot of painting sticks).


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Steve J on 08 July 2020, 06:31:53 AM
Quote
I wonder if Pendraken could outsource to IKEA and/or B&Q ...

Now that would be good ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: John Cook on 08 July 2020, 12:48:28 PM
Dream on - I'm fairly certain that wargames manufacturers will not fall into any of the "certain sectors" mentioned.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Leon on 08 July 2020, 01:09:38 PM
I sell garden fencing for very, very small gardens...


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Ithoriel on 08 July 2020, 01:39:27 PM
I sell garden fencing for very, very small gardens...

And teeny-tiny, historically themed, garden gnomes? ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: DecemDave on 08 July 2020, 01:49:12 PM
Just to add to this rant thread.  Being retired, the money I spend with our eponymous purveyor of shiny wargame products largely comes from big company dividends either directly (almost NIL in the last three months) or via that small group of shareholders called pension funds who actually own most of the big UK quoted companies.  The state pension if I eventually live long enough to reach the ever shifting qualifying age, will barely cover food bills.  Although I agree I could do with eating less after 3 months locked down .  And as for pubs, I live in the Sarf so I can either buy a round of drinks or a new army pack.

Where did I leave that violin.....

The good news is that Leon is also a supplier of crates of apples (DUN-FUR10) I have bought some previously so there must be scope for these new voucher thingies.


 


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 08 July 2020, 03:14:49 PM
Well.....I'll be living off kebabs, fish and chips, and Chinese takeaways in August.

Assuming (ahem) that the £10 off per customer is valid in takeaways, as well as restaurants.......Bet it isn't.

Cheers - Phil ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: ianrs54 on 08 July 2020, 03:41:52 PM
The 5% VAT isn't !


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 08 July 2020, 05:02:49 PM
You're right, Matey.

You only pay VAT on 'sit in' meals, don't you....Takeaways don't attract VAT. (I think) :-\

Have to say the money off 'vouchers' for sit in meals doesn't appeal to us......Especially as every man and his dog are going to be trying to goi into the pubs/restaurants on just those three days per week, during August.

I fear I'm still going to be avoiding potentially 'crowded' areas for a fair old while yet. ;)

Cheers - Phil :)



Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Orcs on 08 July 2020, 07:58:02 PM
You're right, Matey.

You only pay VAT on 'sit in' meals, don't you....Takeaways don't attract VAT. (I think) :-

Cheers - Phil :)
V
VAT has been payable on "hot" takeaway food for years Phil


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Orcs on 08 July 2020, 08:18:38 PM
So you get 50%  (up to £10 a head ) off your meal out on Monday - Wednesday.

Not sure how this is going to help. The cynic in me suggests  all this will do is get people to go out on these days rather than the rest of the week. I doubt they will spend any more than normal (you can only eat so much) and effectively pocket the discount.



Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Raider4 on 08 July 2020, 08:50:43 PM
You only pay VAT on 'sit in' meals, don't you....Takeaways don't attract VAT. (I think) :-

Remembers the days when the burgers in Wimpy were a different price* depending on eat-in or takeaway, and were served in different colour wrappers to indicate which.

A friend of mine was chased out for daring to sneak his take-out burger up to the upstairs dining area.

* Think the difference was only 3p or something.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 08 July 2020, 09:21:30 PM

VAT has been payable on "hot" takeaway food for years Phil

Thanks, Mark.  :)

What I find the most confusing, re the VAT on hot food is.....

If it's VAT rated if it's destined for "immediate" consumption...(I believe that's 'the rule'.).....That would/could include something like a kebab, which could be eaten as soon as you're outside the takeaway....Same for fish and chips....You could eat either of those straightaway.

But what about a Chinese takeaway ?........You can't really eat that, as soon as you're outside the 'shop'....Got to wait until you're home. So that's not what I'd class as ''immediate'.......But, if there is VAT on it (20%) that might make them slightly cheaper, for the time being, 'cos the VAT will go down to 5% ?

Finally...Wasn't there 'a row'' about hot sausage rolls, a few years ago ?..........'They' added VAT, and then took it off again, when it was decided that a lot of folk ate them later, when the rolls had cooled down.

Cheers - Phil.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 08 July 2020, 09:49:37 PM
I sell garden fencing for very, very small gardens...

That's the spirit!


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Leon on 09 July 2020, 12:19:12 AM
Assuming (ahem) that the £10 off per customer is valid in takeaways, as well as restaurants.......Bet it isn't.

It's not sadly...!

Not sure how this is going to help. The cynic in me suggests  all this will do is get people to go out on these days rather than the rest of the week. I doubt they will spend any more than normal (you can only eat so much) and effectively pocket the discount.

I suppose so but you're getting a half-price meal and then the government will be reimbursing the restaurant with the other 50%, so it gets more people going out for food and the businesses don't take the loss.

What I find the most confusing, re the VAT on hot food is.....

When they say 'hot' food it's purely hot food taken away from a pub, restaurant or cafe, so not proper takeaways.  It's to tempt people back to the businesses that have mainly been closed through this, and encourage a few more sales for them.  The question is going to be whether the pub/restaurant/cafe actually discounts the prices to reflect the VAT reduction, or whether they just pocket the difference themselves.  I could understand them doing that after so much lost revenue, but it's a little self-defeating when you're supposed to be taking advantage of a discounted VAT period where you can entice customers in without losing any money.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Steve J on 09 July 2020, 06:41:26 AM
I wonder whether the menu prices will increase to help offset the losses incurred so far? A friend popped by yesterday and mentioned her son's normal barber had increased his prices from £14 (normal for Bristol) to £20 per haircut.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 09 July 2020, 07:13:38 AM
Ouch !

The other thing that might happen with the VAT reduction, is that the actual price of the meal may not go down.....it could just mean that the pub/restaurant won't have to pass on so much to the Vatman.  :-\ (?)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: fsn on 09 July 2020, 08:09:33 AM
The mildly lovely Scotch "Sheep Dip" was apparently so named so that farmers could escape the scrutiny of the tax man.

May I propose a new range of Pendraken figures?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/16/e9/c3/16e9c32814bed60e3571399bfbf167e8.jpg)The burger and chips
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRBc6slzMGRlWlqUhLCciNH09dFpQD0_fXNmA&usqp=CAU)The sweet and sour beef
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/60/70/546070ad81154c4764719d40ae2cafd4.jpg)The vegan rainbow falafel mezze


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Orcs on 09 July 2020, 07:44:04 PM
Ouch !

The other thing that might happen with the VAT reduction, is that the actual price of the meal may not go down.....it could just mean that the pub/restaurant won't have to pass on so much to the Vatman.  :- (?)

Cheers - Phil

Apparently this is exactly what happened in other countries that did a similar thing


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 10 July 2020, 07:57:56 AM
The mildly lovely Scotch "Sheep Dip" was apparently so named so that farmers could escape the scrutiny of the tax man.

The naughty boys !  :o

From the 'other angle'.......

Was there an episode in either Ballykissangel or Hamish Macbeth where some naughty farmers made a load of fake sheep, by painting appropriately sized boxes white ? :-\
This was to fool the 'powers that be', that the farmers weren't over-claiming the number of sheep they had, for their subsidies.....(Which they were)....And having been told of satellite imagery, hatched the white box idea, to make it appear that they had far more sheep than they really owned.

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 10 July 2020, 09:10:32 AM
Ouch !

The other thing that might happen with the VAT reduction, is that the actual price of the meal may not go down.....it could just mean that the pub/restaurant won't have to pass on so much to the Vatman.  :- (?)

Cheers - Phil
Apparently this is exactly what happened in other countries that did a similar thing

Isn't that the whole point of this particular VAT reduction: to put the money into the business to help keep it viable rather than passing it on to the consumer?

Just like the £10 off Monday-Wednesday, it's aimed at helping keep mid-tier restaurants open.

Bottom-tier, fast food multinationals are doing okay and can't do eat-in anyway; £10 a meal isn't going to help upper tier places where it's £50 a starter, but social distancing is more feasible for them; £10 off and a VAT windfall just might help a bit.

Personally, I think it's a sticking plaster over an artery that's about to rupture - whether enough of these little sticking plasters will build up into a dressing strong enough to stop the impending gush only time will tell...


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 10 July 2020, 09:21:08 AM
I think you're probably right, Meirion.  :)

The VAT saving isn't going to make much difference in getting folk back into pubs and restaurants.....The £10 off might encourage a few people, but I'll still be oh, so wary of going anywhere like a pub or restaurant at the mo'.

I fear it'll be a good few months yet, before I feel confident enough to 'mix' with strangers in a 'confined space'.....even with the social distancing.

Cheers - Phil



Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: DecemDave on 10 July 2020, 09:31:41 AM

I fear it'll be a good few months yet, before I feel confident enough to 'mix' with strangers in a 'confined space'.....even with the social distancing.


Which, sadly, will keep the wargame conference and competition circuits closed as well.  I remember one year at the Waperntak bring and buy, I could take my feet off the ground and be carried along in the crush.   ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Raider4 on 10 July 2020, 10:20:43 AM
I fear it'll be a good few months yet, before I feel confident enough to 'mix' with strangers in a 'confined space'.....even with the social distancing.

Went for our first eating-out for over 3 months on Wednesday - cooked breakfast at our local cafe. Fewer tables than there used to be, and only one other person in there. We sat as far away from them as we could . . . Slightly odd experience (giving over a name & contact number with our order), but the food was delicious.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Raider4 on 10 July 2020, 10:22:47 AM
Dream on - I'm fairly certain that wargames manufacturers will not fall into any of the "certain sectors" mentioned.

If the crafting materials that Hobbycraft and The Works sell are included, I don't see why Pendraken should be excluded.

All though this is about getting people in to bricks & mortar stores - not sure Pendraken have a retail presence on the high street (yet)?


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: flamingpig0 on 19 July 2020, 06:57:21 AM
If the crafting materials that Hobbycraft and The Works sell are included, I don't see why Pendraken should be excluded.

All though this is about getting people in to bricks & mortar stores - not sure Pendraken have a retail presence on the high street (yet)?

There is an alternative universe where Games Workshop never existed and there are Pendraken Shops in most high streets.


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Glorfindel on 19 July 2020, 09:46:29 AM
>>There is an alternative universe where Games Workshop never existed and there are Pendraken Shops in most high streets.


I certainly don't see myself as a GW fanboy but wonder where our hobby would be without them, principally in terms of bringing
new blood in.   Probably a topic for a separate thread...


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Techno on 19 July 2020, 12:14:20 PM
Yeah..... ;)

I don't think they were the Evil Empire, when I worked for them....(A lifetime ago, now... :'( :'( :'( :'() :P

But, I'd say they HAVE brought oodles of folk into the hobby......Which is definitely a good thing. :)

I've still got wodges of time for Bryan (Ansell).

On the very odd occasions I speak to him....I still call him 'Guvnor'.

Cheers - Phil






Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 19 July 2020, 07:09:52 PM
Yeah..... ;)

I don't think they were the Evil Empire, when I worked for them....(A lifetime ago, now... :'( :'( :'( :'() :P

But, I'd say they HAVE brought oodles of folk into the hobby......Which is definitely a good thing. :)

I've still got wodges of time for Bryan (Ansell).

On the very odd occasions I speak to him....I still call him 'Guvnor'.

Cheers - Phil

My feeling - admittedly from the small sample of a visit to Warhammer World in Nottingham last year and the Woking shop - is that there’s been a bit of a turn around in company ethos compared to the darkest days.  I believe there has been changes at the top and they’re actually listening to the customers now.

I also saw on the BBC website that they’d weathered the Covid storm very well and have paid back their Furlough money to the government. 

Anyway, the chap in the Woking shop always cheers me up with his enthusiasm whenever I’m dragged in by my sprogs, so some credit where credit’s due  ;)


Title: Re: Government Vouchers for "Covid Hit" Industries
Post by: Raider4 on 19 July 2020, 07:17:51 PM
My feeling - admittedly from the small sample of a visit to Warhammer World in Nottingham last year and the Woking shop - is that there’s been a bit of a turn around in company ethos compared to the darkest days.  I believe there has been changes at the top and they’re actually listening to the customers now.

I went right off them when they introduced their new paint range a few years ago, and the chairman boasted that one of the reasons was so that every paint now had a trademarked/copyrighted name.

They then did the same with elves and dwarfs and orcses, etc., and gave them all really stupid names when they reset the fantasy game a couple of years ago.