Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: bigjackmac on 10 May 2020, 06:05:18 PM



Title: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: bigjackmac on 10 May 2020, 06:05:18 PM
All,

Operation Barbarossa is fast approaching.  For some reason I decided to re-base my forces, wanted everything uniform, was tired of the hodge-podge of different colors and flocking.  So I'm almost finished, but I've run into a conundrum: I didn't want to base my vehicles because I plan on playing both summer, verdant battles and snowy, winter battles, and when you base your vehicles you sort of have to commit to either verdant or snow.  But I don't want to commit, I want to eat my cake and have it, too.  So the question is, how do you base vehicles that can be used for both the grassy steppe and snowy winter?

Take a gander at what I've got and what I've done so far.
 
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-a5ZNDefoTOs/XrgonzTNEGI/AAAAAAAA0mQ/JrGCWhwdG0slVJYQI_wtiugN8OXkaE2ywCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3151.JPG)
So, here's the whole mess, Germans on the left, Soviets on the right.  It's not finished; I took everything I had and re-based it, then I had to buy some more stuff.  I had plenty of infantry but needed more vehicles, so I picked up some German halftracks and some Soviet T-34s, T-26s, a Ba-6, and a T-60.  I also picked up some Panzer IVGs (long 75s), Marder IIs, and Stug IIIDs (long 75s), so I figure the collection you have before you can take me all the way through the German 'gray' era, or up to summer of 1943. 

Back to the basing issue: as you can see, the infantry are flocked in a nice, verdant mix, while the vehicles are not.  Just so you know, I have separate German and Soviet infantry and guns for winter, they're just not finished.  So I knew I'd need separate summer and winter infantry and guns, but want to use a single set of vehicles.  To that end, you  can see I have not flocked my vehicles, just painted them a nice muddy color on the base.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KUCXqsgqDN4/XrgonnvsR0I/AAAAAAAA0mM/EUOqR8LAYQcTX_ed2fJL58rGiY7A6iynQCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3152.JPG)
A closer look at ze Germans.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GWpIxytKMdQ/XrgonXE3NqI/AAAAAAAA0mI/BTZG_UM0A_AbXBadjv0YEO1pKelmJAL6wCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3153.JPG)
And the Reds.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--oLUq9BGZA8/XrgoprSAFaI/AAAAAAAA0mU/hvnsCaDj4DU1LPtbhFRfAWTpF1Kd4Hl0wCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3154.JPG)
A close-up of a Soviet engineer platoon, to show the basing, the painted base edges (which are now a single color for all bases, rather than the 96 I'd previously used).  You're looking at a platoon command stand and three squad-sized stands.  I may add some clump foliage to the infantry/gun bases, we'll see.

So those look good, but what about the vehicles?

Here's my plan: leave the vehicle bases muddy brown in the spring/summer, then paint them white for the fall/winter, then paint them back muddy for the spring/summer of '42, then paint them white for the fall/winter of '42, then paint them brown for the spring/summer of '43.  Do you think that will work?  My concern is that the muddy-colored base is too jarring/ugly.  What do you think?

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-N5C_kIYjQOs/XrgozsMO0cI/AAAAAAAA0mc/3j3EJvAMFm0-LewDhidK_pKM0WgNSW5OgCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3155.JPG)
Here's what the muddy bases look like on the table at 'normal' tabletop distance.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HK5yEnget7k/XrgoxXBCWtI/AAAAAAAA0mY/_683EprMS3MLA8Sb7-_GP1KaM7hERaOOgCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3156.JPG)
A close up of the Panzer IV.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-axsAb749Iqo/Xrgo5FyvYjI/AAAAAAAA0mo/mtmWS24_ujUTCMbOIFzb_f6xo4lzHzmxACNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3157.JPG)
And the KV-1.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JAE2cRBsEAA/Xrgo8HyYV4I/AAAAAAAA0ms/NL0uZygvdBYJSLC-PLR-OiXyav_B_b3YwCNcBGAsYHQ/s1600/IMG_3158.JPG)
The KV-1 taking a shot at the Panzer IV. 

So how does that look to you?  Can you stand it?  Should I?  Is there another alternative? 

Let me lay some ground rules: I'm not going to buy another set of all those vehicles and do them again in winter colors.  I can't see flocking the vehicle bases for summer and then scraping it off and painting the bases white, I think it would be too frustrating trying to get all the flock off, would probably damage the basing gel I put down, and may even end up stabbing, scraping, and damaging the paintjob on the models. 

I have thought of having two separate bases for each vehicle, one summer and one winter.  I lay on the basing gel, then pull the vehicle off, let it set, and flock for summer and paint white for winter.  Then I attach the vehicle to the appropriate base in a non-permanent way, so that I can put them on and take them off as appropriate.

So what do you guys think?  What would work best, or do you know of another idea, something I haven't thought of? 

Thanks in advance!

V/R,
Jack


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: mmcv on 10 May 2020, 06:23:25 PM
I've seen people use clear perspex bases in the past that then appear nearly invisible and just show through the mat underneath. Your tables are always so well set up so that could work quite well as you'll just see what is on the table base below - road, grass, snow, whatever!


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: fred. on 10 May 2020, 06:30:27 PM
I don’t think there is an easy answer.

I tend to go with a mix of grass and bare earth on my bases in the hope they blend with various terrain.

The muddy bases look too uniform this makes them stand out against the background. Perhaps some dry brushing or washes to bring out the texture?

For snow you could add some loose flock to the vehicle bases.

The other option with vehicles is no bases! They are big enough to sit on the terrain as they are - but it does make storage harder.



Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: Raider4 on 10 May 2020, 06:36:34 PM
The other option with vehicles is no bases! They are big enough to sit on the terrain as they are - but it does make storage harder.

The KV-1 above is longer than the base it's on, so worrying about storage may not be a factor here.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: Orcs on 10 May 2020, 07:00:25 PM
Some of the members don't base 10mm tanks. I do as it allows the base to stop the tanks rubbing up against each other when stored.  I would base for summer with flock and ground then just use a green table even for winter, and factor in the weather effect into the scenario. ie less visiblity etc



Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: fsn on 10 May 2020, 08:58:25 PM
I'm with Orcs.

Thought I do think the idea of clear bases is very clever.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: hammurabi70 on 10 May 2020, 09:40:23 PM
Create a sabot by cutting out white felt to match the base size and then cut a hole that the AFV will push through.  However, if it is painted for summer it will look peculiar.  As the winter requirement is a white coating the ultimate solution is two sets of tanks. Our solution is for two of us to create distinct summer and winter armies and use each other’s.  As a solo player that is not much use to you.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: bigjackmac on 11 May 2020, 02:20:36 AM
First, thanks everyone, I appreciate the quick responses!

I am intrigued by the clear bases, but I may have zoomed past that already.

Regarding the bases, storage is helped by the bases, but it wasn't the deciding factor.  Not basing is not an option.  I didn't want to base my vehicles, but then the bases I bought for my troops ended up being thicker than I expected and I don't want my troops running around being three (scale) feet taller than my tanks!

My current bases are a little bright; just realized I hadn't given them an ink wash yet...

I'm all alone in my wargaming endeavors, so if I want summer and winter armies (and I do), I've got to do them myself.

It may not be perfectly accurate, but I'm okay with my Germans using gray tanks and my Soviets using green tanks in the snow.  It's not perfect, but again, I'm a solo gamer and I absolutely am not going to buy two of every vehicle.  For those of you doing that, my hat is off to you!

I'm leaning towards having separate summer and winter bases; I'm going to test and see how it works.

V/R,
Jack



V/R,
Jack


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: Noktu on 11 May 2020, 04:44:34 AM
If you end up having separate bases for summer and winter, maybe you could use blue tack to then swap on and off?


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: paulr on 11 May 2020, 06:17:22 AM
Or magnets


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: hammurabi70 on 11 May 2020, 08:54:45 AM
I'm all alone in my wargaming endeavors, so if I want summer and winter armies (and I do), I've got to do them myself.

It may not be perfectly accurate, but I'm okay with my Germans using gray tanks and my Soviets using green tanks in the snow.  It's not perfect, but again, I'm a solo gamer and I absolutely am not going to buy two of every vehicle.  For those of you doing that, my hat is off to you!

I'm leaning towards having separate summer and winter bases; I'm going to test and see how it works.

V/R,
Jack

Actually, it is worse than that as for some you need three.  My opponent has German tanks for early war in panzer gray and late war in Dapple camo.  Hence, some tanks like Tigers fall into all three categories.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: Orcs on 11 May 2020, 09:00:01 AM
The only snag with clear bases is that any superglue that runs will show up as a white splodge on the base. As Hammurabi says the ideal is to have different armies for winter and summer.

Trouble is you then need completely different terrain as well. Snow covered houses and trees etc,


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: ianrs54 on 11 May 2020, 09:04:50 AM
None of my vehicle collection is based, except the stuff used for BKC, CWC, and FWC. Infantry, if singles then 12.7 x 12.7 counters, if multi 40x20 MDF. Guns - square bases sized to take gun and crew.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: Ithoriel on 11 May 2020, 01:56:30 PM
The only transparent bases I've seen in action were under some Napoleonic Ships.

Initially I thought,"Oooh! That's neat!" but within minutes I couldn't shake the notion that the ships were floating above the seas surface on a cushion of air. Proto-areonefs, perhaps! :)


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: fred. on 11 May 2020, 02:01:36 PM
Regarding clear basing - if done with thicker bases it does rather give a shiny / floating appearance.

But there are some gamers using very thin plastic - either blister packs or report cover sheets - and these are nearly invisible on the table. This is with 28mm figures, not 10mm tanks, so not sure how applicable it is.


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: bigjackmac on 12 May 2020, 02:07:12 AM
Thanks again, everyone!

My vehicles are already based, so I'm sticking with that (as well as to match the infantry, as I wrote above), and I'm already past using clear bases.

The question, at this point, is whether I can use one set of bases that is either suitable for summer and winter or can easily be transitioned between the two, or use two sets of bases and pry them off/stick them off as needed.  It's looking like the latter, so another order out to Leon ;)

V/R,
Jack


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: hammurabi70 on 12 May 2020, 03:38:06 PM
Thanks again, everyone!

My vehicles are already based, so I'm sticking with that (as well as to match the infantry, as I wrote above), and I'm already past using clear bases.

The question, at this point, is whether I can use one set of bases that is either suitable for summer and winter or can easily be transitioned between the two, or use two sets of bases and pry them off/stick them off as needed.  It's looking like the latter, so another order out to Leon ;)

V/R,
Jack


What do you ‘stick’ with?


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: bigjackmac on 13 May 2020, 02:01:01 AM
A glue called E6000, which holds well but I'm still able to pry minis off relatively easily with a knife.

V/R,
Jack


Title: Re: Need Help/Advice/Guidance with 10mm Basing
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 13 May 2020, 04:52:10 PM
Maybe, after the first pry, attach some magnets: stick one to the base, then attach the second under the vehicle with a blob of Milliput to bridge the gap  :-\