Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Non-Pendraken Stuff => Topic started by: Edmund2011 on 05 April 2020, 01:03:21 AM

Title: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Edmund2011 on 05 April 2020, 01:03:21 AM
Hello everyone!

I hope you and your families are safe and well.

I am painting some old 25mm Ral Partha landsknechts, some of the references can be seen here:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/23-ral-partha-historical-renaissance-291014424

I am searching for some more renaissance figures that can be used with them. They are 25mm to the top of the head without counting the base. My impression is that current 25mm/28mm figures are much bigger... but I don't play with 28mm and don't know. Maybe the old (80s) GW Empire range could fit?

I would welcome any advice or photo/guide comparison you could share.

Thanks!!
Ed

Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Techno on 05 April 2020, 07:37:35 AM
Hmmm....

Partha's figures were (I think) always slightly smaller than 'the rest', Ed.

Ironwind Metals are still doing quite a few of the old Partha figures....might be worth a look ?
My only other thought would be Wargames Foundry...They do some of the 'old' Citadel figures, I believe.

'Fraid my knowledge of more recent manufacturers is just about non-existant....But some of these nice chaps on the forum might well be able to point you at something suitable.

Cheers - Phil

Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: sunjester on 05 April 2020, 08:36:21 AM
Everything I've bought over the past 20 years towers over my old Ral Partha minis, so I think you only option will be to see what Ironwind still have in production, or else other "vintage" manufacturers. Not sure what to suggest though, Hinchcliffe and Essex will still be too tall and Minifigs will look like blobs alongside the Ral Partha sculpts. Perhaps someone else on the forum can suggest alternatives?
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: sunjester on 05 April 2020, 08:43:08 AM
Sorry, I meant to say, I think Ironwind have changed their name to Ral Partha Europe now.
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: pierre the shy on 05 April 2020, 09:07:00 AM
No expert on this but years ago I bought whole lot of second hand Redoubt Enterprises 25mm Landsknechts at a convention for bit of opposition for a mainly Front Rank Burgundian army. The Front Rank stuff is more 28mm but the Redoubt stuff is definitely more 25mm in size from feet to top of their headgear.

https://www.redoubtenterprises.com/product-category/renaissance/infantry/

I have not dealt with the manufacturer myself. 

Good luck in your search Ed.
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 05 April 2020, 11:23:08 PM
Hello

Maybe you could try some of the scale creep 20mm plastics as rear rankers, Dark Dream (listed as 24mm) and Red Box (listed as 24.5mm) both have landsknechts:-

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=9 (http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/PeriodList.aspx?period=9)

(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/DDS72004a.jpg)

(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/DDS72004b.jpg)

(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/DDS72002b.jpg)

(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/RED72058a.jpg)

(http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/RED72058b.jpg)

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Edmund2011 on 06 April 2020, 12:11:41 AM
Thanks for your comments.

Quote from: Techno on 05 April 2020, 07:37:35 AM
Ironwind Metals are still doing quite a few of the old Partha figures....might be worth a look ?
My only other thought would be Wargames Foundry...They do some of the 'old' Citadel figures, I believe.

yes RAl Partha Europe is selling some RP old figures, but not the Condottiere/Renaissance range.  The Wargames Foundry option is good!

Quote from: sunjester on 05 April 2020, 08:36:21 AM
Not sure what to suggest though, Hinchcliffe and Essex will still be too tall and Minifigs will look like blobs alongside the Ral Partha sculpts.

Thanks, I take note :)

Quote from: pierre the shy on 05 April 2020, 09:07:00 AM
The Front Rank stuff is more 28mm but the Redoubt stuff is definitely more 25mm in size from feet to top of their headgear.

Ok, thanks!

Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 05 April 2020, 11:23:08 PM
Maybe you could try some of the scale creep 20mm plastics as rear rankers, Dark Dream (listed as 24mm) and Red Box (listed as 24.5mm) both have landsknechts:-

I'm really considering using Dark Dream Studios with them. I have their landsknecths figures you show for another unifinished project, but not with me right now, so I can not put DDS and RP together. Ral Partha are 25mm tall but with more volume and size compared to 1/72 figures. I think they will not mix well in a unit, but for a game they may share the battlefield.

Anyway, I keep exploring the lead market, as I may buy some 25mm metal swiss for a skirmish game or something similar.


I found this webpage with a list of brands for the period:

https://www.madaxeman.com/main/28mm_Renaissance_suppliers.php


And they mention a manufacturer called "Hoka Hey" that sells a 28mm Renaissance range produced in the past by Pendraken:

"HokaHey have picked up the range of Elizabethan figures originally designed and carried by Pendraken" and there is a link to Timeline

https://www.timelineminiatures.co.uk/page/border-reivers


I didn't know about it!


Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Orcs on 06 April 2020, 11:07:04 AM
Parkfield Miniatures do some Burgundians/ Swiss wars in 25mm, although they are not taking orders at the moment.


https://www.parkfieldminiatures.co.uk/
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Edmund2011 on 15 April 2020, 01:33:08 AM
Thanks Orcs, I will consider Parkerfield too!
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Big Insect on 15 April 2020, 11:35:09 AM
One of the considerations - other than size - is the period you are going to use your Landsknechts in.

Early on they looked a lot like Swiss - limited slashing, smaller berets, fewer feathers, tight hose and the classic late C15th/early C16th tight short corslets and open faced sallets and burgonets.

You them move into what I call the early C16th - pre-French Wars of Religion period - where you get a lot of the classic figures that manufacturers sculpt - baggier sleeves & knee-length slashed hose - the hound-dog slashed shoes, some ribboning and the larger felt hats.

The you have the Plunderhosen period - or wars of religion - dress. With full long plunderhosen, huge baggy slashed sleeves & tunics, more pointy shoes and a variety of soft hats - some even furry.

I'd thoroughly recommend the John Richards - Landsknecht Soldier book from Osprey - Warrior series no.49.
Probably the best authority on their dress & reasonably accessible - the illustrations by Gerry Embleton are also really helpful, as Gerry is an authority on historical military dress, and if you understand how the clothing is made you also can understand how to paint it.
Too often you see table-top Landsknechts painted in the weirdest of ways and they just don't look right - usually because the painter doesn't understand that the colour of the slashing is an under-garment pulled through the slash.

Nice 'classic' gaming figures those old Ral Paltha figures I had a few in the past.
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Edmund2011 on 20 April 2020, 01:56:07 AM
Thanks for the comments and useful information Big Insect.

I am thinking of playing in the 1500-1550 period so I think the figures of RP fit there well.

Sure, I will check that Osprey as soon as I can, thanks for the suggestion. The one I have is Men-at-arms 58 The Landsknecths.

Quote from: Big Insect on 15 April 2020, 11:35:09 AM
Too often you see table-top Landsknechts painted in the weirdest of ways and they just don't look right - usually because the painter doesn't understand that the colour of the slashing is an under-garment pulled through the slash.

Ah! yes, yes, the slashing showed a different colour below. Very good point.  :-bd

Quote from: Big Insect on 15 April 2020, 11:35:09 AM
Nice 'classic' gaming figures those old Ral Paltha figures I had a few in the past.

I fell in love with these figures and bought a bunch in an auction long ago. I want to use them now in a game. Mixing with 1/72 plastics I have enough figures for a battle-game, but as I don't have almost any time to paint (or play) I have changed the project to a skirmish-game, more easy to be done (hopefully) .

Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Big Insect on 21 April 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Small skirmish games in the Renaissance can be great fun.

Do you have a set of rules you are intending to use?
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 21 April 2020, 02:06:52 PM
Pikeman's Lament is fun...
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Terry37 on 22 April 2020, 03:33:14 AM
I may have some spare old Minifig figures from the 80's that fit pretty well with Ral Partha. Can you give me an idea of what you're looking for? What I have is unpainted and still in nice clean shape.

Here are some I painted for my Milanese army.

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh235/terry37photos/Milanese%20General%201%20.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/p/7d8e0054-0ef9-4d8a-b997-47ac437715df)

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh235/terry37photos/Milanese%20General%202%20.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/p/9f0d9720-453c-40f5-ab97-212aff1be149)

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh235/terry37photos/Milanese%20Blades%201%20.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/p/4327160b-f252-4b03-a4d1-2a7fbb3402a1)

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/hh235/terry37photos/Milanese%20Blades%202%20.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/terry37photos/p/fedd881e-b353-45e2-8ce7-bb7b8a1b6fa1)

I'll help if I can.

Terry
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: FierceKitty on 22 April 2020, 06:19:27 AM
Oooh, that's pretty.
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: paulr on 22 April 2020, 07:08:24 AM
 :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Techno on 22 April 2020, 08:01:52 AM
Very spiffy, Terry !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Big Insect on 22 April 2020, 09:07:42 AM
Very nice Terry

On the skirmish rules I have played 'Backswords & Bucklers' by Christopher Cale - published by Mythmere Games - in the past.

It is set in Elizabethan England (London) and is a tavern brawling skirmish set - very good.
There is a section where you can upgrade the game to include magic & superstition - but it is not an essential part of the game - although they were very superstitious times!
I played it in respect of a Wars of Religion spy campaign - e.g. Christopher Marlow, Dr John and The Queens Conjurer - type thing.
But it could easily work for Landsknechts.
I must admit I only have Book 1 in hard-copy - these are Basic Rules - the other companion set are a series of 5 'jobs' or adventures that your hero(s) have been hired to perform.

You can apparently download a free PDF copy of the basic rules at this site: http://www.lulu.com/gb/en/shop/christopher-cale/backswords-bucklers-book-one-basic-rules/ebook/product-17402084.html
The companion book is also available - at a cost of £2.50 from Lulu: http://www.lulu.com/shop/christopher-cale/backswords-bucklers-adventure-book-one/paperback/product-20121464.html

It was a hoot and a great use of so many nice 28mm Elizabethan style figures  :)

Cheers
Mark
Title: Re: Ral Partha 25mm landsknechts size comparison/advise
Post by: Edmund2011 on 24 April 2020, 01:59:50 AM
Quote from: Big Insect on 21 April 2020, 01:32:48 PM
Do you have a set of rules you are intending to use?

I plan to use En Garde!, as it seems fun and they have "Landsknecths warband". Oddly being an skirmish game (5-20 figures) their basic weapon is the pike. I can't see how they use a pike in a man to man combat   :-  so I will use figures without pikes.  ;)

Quote from: mad lemmey on 21 April 2020, 02:06:52 PM
Pikeman's Lament is fun...

Thanks Lemmy. I've never played it and seems fun, but I'm not considered it as I'm planning use 12-15 figures per side, and PML is intended for more (between 40-60 in units) I think.

Quote from: Big Insect on 22 April 2020, 09:07:42 AM
On the skirmish rules I have played 'Backswords & Bucklers' by Christopher Cale - published by Mythmere Games - in the past.

Thanks for the suggestion Mark. I have the game, in the RPG folder so I had not even thought about using it with miniatures! I have cheked it, and the RPG part is not what I'm looking for now in the project, but the Tavern part and the scenarios ideas are really good. I am going to use them in my RPG games (RQ, Pendragon)  :-bd and also for small skirmish figures games, to create a quick MacGuffin.

So, for now the idea is En Garde! with plots taken from B&B.

Quote from: Terry37 on 22 April 2020, 03:33:14 AM
I may have some spare old Minifig figures from the 80's that fit pretty well with Ral Partha. Can you give me an idea of what you're looking for? What I have is unpainted and still in nice clean shape.

I'll help if I can.
Terry

Hi Terry, I am looking for anything not Landsknecht: swiss, french, italians, italian wars generic troops, civilians, etc. ;) If you can share or send me some pics of them it would be great.

And very nice painted figures! :)