Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Non-Pendraken Stuff => Topic started by: mad lemmey on 10 September 2019, 03:59:17 PM



Title: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mad lemmey on 10 September 2019, 03:59:17 PM
Interesting faceache post today, 10mm parthians?
https://www.facebook.com/196181460427546/posts/2493791130666556/


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 10 September 2019, 04:05:25 PM
Very interesting departure if they are. Have they suddeenly realised that building a large 28mm army is becoming unreachable for many wargamers?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Fenton on 10 September 2019, 04:33:09 PM
There meant to ge releasing a small scale version if swordpoint in November as they were demonstrating it at Joy of 6


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leon on 10 September 2019, 05:14:05 PM
Interesting...! 

I think that larger companies like Gripping Beast and Plastic Soldier coming down to 10mm is generally a good thing, as long as they're bringing more exposure and customers to the smaller scale market.  If their existing customers aren't interested and can't be convinced, then all that happens is that a niche market gets spread even more thinly. 


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: fred. on 10 September 2019, 06:43:14 PM
Hopefully will create more interest and exposure to a great scale!

Not sure Iím a huge fan of the GB figures, they look slightly odd in their poses, which might be to do with production methods. The GW BoFA plastic figures, while pretty good, werenít that great and several had rather big solid areas which were filled undercuts, and were overall a bit flat. This may be a limitation of hard plastic moulds - the better 28mm figures are multi-piece. I certainly donít want mult-piece 10mm figures! I remember a few 1/72nd figures with separate arms - they were bad enough to build!!

The PSC vehicles look pretty good from what I have seen of them


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Fenton on 10 September 2019, 07:05:33 PM
Are these going to be plastic?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: fred. on 10 September 2019, 07:08:31 PM
Actually, good question. Iíve assumed they are plastic, but I may be influenced by the PSC annoucement, though I think I have seen somewhere the GB figures are plastic.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mollinary on 10 September 2019, 07:11:16 PM
They are quite nice, but the commanderís horse looks a bit odd - did they teach horses to do the goose step??


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Dr Dave on 10 September 2019, 07:30:36 PM
They are quite nice, but the commanderís horse looks a bit odd - did they teach horses to do the goose step??

The Spanish riding school - in Vienna - do. But itís traditional form of walking over there.  :o


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Big Insect on 10 September 2019, 07:57:48 PM
Parthian is one of those 'tester' armies for manufacturers - as there are in reality only 2 core figure types - Cataphracts and Light Cavalry Horse archers (yes, I know there are Hatran allies with infantry bowmen and armoured cataphract camels etc. but you get my point).

So it's a relatively cheap way of entering a new scale/market and doing a test. Sarmatian is another  :)

I think Khurasan did Parthians as their 1st 15mm ancient range (or was it Sarmatian) and Peter Pig likewise.

But we'll see if they are committed to the scale and the period - Parthians fight Romans and Seleucids and Sassanids ... and there are a lot of unit variations in these.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: fsn on 10 September 2019, 08:03:57 PM
I don't like them. The standard bearer is OK, but the commander's horse looks like a donkey with a complex. Possibly historically accurate it looks too small to me and he doesn't seem to sitting on the right bit of it. Not only that, but his right arm looks a bit ... add-on.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Westmarcher on 10 September 2019, 10:02:40 PM
.. but the commander's horse looks like a donkey with a complex. 

Pose reminds me of Spotty Dog in The Woodentops.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 11 September 2019, 01:28:22 AM
Are these going to be plastic?

Just having a look at the photos, they look like metal, too many nooks, crannies and undercuts for plastic. Maybe they're look at doing the hoi polloi as plastic and the command types as metal??? Although there are lots of issues in doing realistic scale/lammelar in plastic and smaller scales so the cataphracts would be an issue. My guess is metal for all the figures but we'll only know when they're released.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 September 2019, 01:54:56 AM
the


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Norm on 11 September 2019, 05:12:34 AM
Victrix are meant to be doing 1/144 WWII vehicles, which I believe will be plastic.

The interesting thing about the gripping beast offering is that presently, plastics are good for bulking out armies with common poses,  but still often rely on less common things being bought in lead, unless GP make their figures match a current metal producers range, their sprue will need to include all the oddities, which is probably why they have driven past the more obvious 15mm and gone straight for 10mm. The old Warmaster players will be a ready audience.

I think those getting into vehicles will be doing entire platoons or companies, again that bulking out thing, so for those wanting 2 - 4 tanks of a type, may not see any advantage. Timescale are an exception, but then they are metal and not plastic on a sprue.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Techno on 11 September 2019, 06:14:42 AM
Pose reminds me of Spotty Dog in The Woodentops.

 ;D ;D ;D

(Well....I get that one.)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Steve J on 11 September 2019, 07:09:22 AM
I loved the Woodentops. Also the Herbs, Hector's House, Pippin fort and Camberwick Green :).


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 11 September 2019, 08:14:14 AM
Pose reminds me of Spotty Dog in The Woodentops.

I know it reminded me of something.

Insufficient filler at the back of the neck, and that odd front leg.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 11 September 2019, 09:03:12 AM
I remember doing the East German Woodentops at Uni which featured Workersí heroine Frau Scrubbitz.

To: We have no bananas

Yes, weíve derailed this one,
Weíve derailed this one today!  :d :d :d


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: FierceKitty on 11 September 2019, 10:13:53 AM
We've been working on derailroad,
All de live long day....


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: ianrs54 on 11 September 2019, 12:11:25 PM
Just about remember Wooden Tops, have seen every episode of bag Puss....


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Steve J on 11 September 2019, 12:18:32 PM
Yep, Bag Puss was excellent. Our daughter found it creepy; not sure why :-?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Raider4 on 11 September 2019, 12:57:47 PM
Yep, Bag Puss was excellent. Our daughter found it creepy; not sure why :-?

One of ours was absolutely terrified of The Herbs (watched on a VHS of "classic" children's TV shows). Hated it.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 11 September 2019, 01:46:00 PM
How could anyone hate Parsley the Lion? I bet you booed Simba at the cinema.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mad lemmey on 11 September 2019, 03:36:10 PM
They have just posted shoulder padded skirmishers too!!


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Matt J on 11 September 2019, 04:04:32 PM
Karate kid bowmen  :-

don't like 'em


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Ben Waterhouse on 11 September 2019, 04:44:45 PM
They are a tad underwhelming...


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mollinary on 11 September 2019, 07:13:15 PM
I think they are better than the mounted figures.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Raider4 on 11 September 2019, 07:21:46 PM
How could anyone hate Parsley the Lion? I bet you booed Simba at the cinema.

Nay, 'twas the Chives that freaked him out.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 11 September 2019, 07:51:27 PM
There was a time when chavs freaked me out.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Wulf on 11 September 2019, 08:51:56 PM
Yep, Bag Puss was excellent. Our daughter found it creepy; not sure why :-?
Bagpuss WAS creepy. All the better for it, but... unsettling...


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 12 September 2019, 09:36:26 AM
Heeeeve, heeeeve, heeeeve!


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: FierceKitty on 12 September 2019, 09:39:18 AM
We-will-fix-it.....


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Womble67 on 12 September 2019, 09:41:28 AM
Anything that brings more prominence to the scale is a good thing let's hope they get a good response. It might encourage some of the 28mm people to consider downsizing in scale.

Take care

Andy


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leman on 12 September 2019, 12:33:42 PM
Especially if they do not want to see the death of the big battle, or, even worse for them, youngsters turning to other companies, having tired of skirmish gaming, seeking the big battle experience. At least even the Perrys have an 8mm range of sorts.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 12 September 2019, 04:50:13 PM
Cataphract Camels too.

One of those things that happened (once?) but every manufacturer needs a model.
See also Cyrus' mobile tower - must be a Persian thing.

I can't say I'm impressed with the "all in one pose" approach.
It's OK for drilled regular infantry, but otherwise it's a bit "Spanish riding school".


I'll close by observing that as the figure size/scale gets smaller, so buyers seem far more (fussy about mixing manufacturers / loyal).


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mmcv on 12 September 2019, 10:47:40 PM
I'll close by observing that as the figure size/scale gets smaller, so buyers seem far more (fussy about mixing manufacturers / loyal).

I suppose a lot of that comes down to the fact that many of the smaller scales are run by smaller companies and one man shows. When you're dealing with them you build up more of a relationship and rapport with them and the broader community. You don't really get that with the big faceless 28mm companies so much. I suspect they're seeing a shift in the market where people haven't the time and resources to do large scale battles with large scale models. That pushed people towards skirmishing, but I imagine skirmish games can get a bit repetitive and people start to crave the glory and splendour of grand battles.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: FierceKitty on 13 September 2019, 02:24:30 AM
Cataphract Camels too.

One of those things that happened (once?) but every manufacturer needs a model.


We know about the armoured camels when they joined the Parthians, but that doesn't necessarily mean they didn't appear elsewhere and fail to make it into the records we have. Ancient Arabia has turned out to be a bit more than just trackless sandy wastes and shimmering caravans in the heat haze.

On which persuasion, I used them as part of an Arab force raiding Persia a while ago. We still got trounced, of course.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Norm on 13 September 2019, 06:14:03 AM
I suppose a lot of that comes down to the fact that many of the smaller scales are run by smaller companies and one man shows. When you're dealing with them you build up more of a relationship and rapport with them and the broader community. You don't really get that with the big faceless 28mm companies so much. I suspect they're seeing a shift in the market where people haven't the time and resources to do large scale battles with large scale models. That pushed people towards skirmishing, but I imagine skirmish games can get a bit repetitive and people start to crave the glory and splendour of grand battles.

It may well be that skirmish based gaming has been around for so long now, that offering a 'big battle' system would be genuinely new to a certain audience (and suddenly make the rest of us trendy!)  and become a good revenue stream for companies, as well as allowing them to promote big battle systems. It would certainly allow Gripping Beast to operate in two scale areas, opening new markets, which would be a big expansion for them. If figures have been computer sculpted, then once done, they can be set to any scale and 'knocked out', you could see Gripping Beast use the same sculpts in 10mm and 28mm.

I wonder whether scale incompatibility is more noticeable at the smaller scales?   


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mmcv on 13 September 2019, 07:23:35 AM
Good points Norm. I wonder though if scaling up and down will be as effective as that, presumably when going down you may need to rework things to emphasise different parts of the model to look right at the scale.

Incompatibility is one, I don't mind mixing manufacturers in different units but the differences in style are such that on the same base they'll look wrong.

Don't have enough experience with the big boys to say if they're the same.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Womble67 on 13 September 2019, 09:05:00 AM
interesting discussion

Take care

Andy


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Norm on 13 September 2019, 12:39:39 PM
As far as I know, Plastic Soldier Company scale down CAD files. In their very early days, the first set was Russian infantry in summer uniforms. With them, they scaled down to 15mm and up to 28mm (starting with a 1/72 file), the scaling up produced a softer detailed figure.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Raider4 on 13 September 2019, 01:16:32 PM
I have done a fair bit of re-sizing of print-your-own card models from (usually) 25/28mm down to 10mm or 6mm size. You just have to drop some details because they're too fiddly.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 13 September 2019, 04:53:35 PM
I have done a fair bit of re-sizing of print-your-own card models from (usually) 25/28mm down to 10mm or 6mm size. You just have to drop some details because they're too fiddly.

It's the same approach as painting in smaller scales.
Much of the "But they're sooo hard to paint" appears to come from people who've dipped a toe in 10 or 6mm, but are still trying to add 28mm levels of detail to their figures.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Wulf on 13 September 2019, 08:34:31 PM
Scaling minis up is easy, you just get slightly chunkier, more robust, but less detailed looking minis (less detail to the square inch that is). Scaling minis down raises distinct possibilities of bits not casting at all, or being so thin as to break as soon as you sneeze at them...


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mmcv on 13 September 2019, 09:35:10 PM
It's the same approach as painting in smaller scales.
Much of the "But they're sooo hard to paint" appears to come from people who've dipped a toe in 10 or 6mm, but are still trying to add 28mm levels of detail to their figures.

Yeah I can understand that, especially going 28>6 in one step. Different way of painting. Working down the scales helps. I started in 28mm, then
after a few months of that tried going straight to 6mm and hated it as I'd just not the skills to do anything but blob paint on. Doing literally a few 15mm then going 10mm felt more like a smooth transition. 10mm has the advantage of stuff having a decent bit of detail too so you still paint a figure rather than a representative group. I've not done a full 6mm project yet but I'd be a lot less daunted by the prospect now. Doing a 2mm at present but it's a different approach again.

10mm is kind of the 28mm of the small scales so makes sense that people are moving more into it.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 14 September 2019, 12:59:59 AM
Yeah I can understand that, especially going 28>6 in one step. Different way of painting. Working down the scales helps. I started in 28mm, then
after a few months of that tried going straight to 6mm and hated it as I'd just not the skills to do anything but blob paint on. Doing literally a few 15mm then going 10mm felt more like a smooth transition. 10mm has the advantage of stuff having a decent bit of detail too so you still paint a figure rather than a representative group. I've not done a full 6mm project yet but I'd be a lot less daunted by the prospect now. Doing a 2mm at present but it's a different approach again.

10mm is kind of the 28mm of the small scales so makes sense that people are moving more into it.

My experience is that 15mm and below benefit from some sort of painting production line technique.
By the time your reach the 6mm strips It's realy the only way.

It's simply not practical to check each figure/strip to see whether backpack, ammo pouch, shako plate etc have been painted.
I work with units of 120 foot and around 30 mounted, do all of a specific feature (or all of several features), then bag the unit up again.
I'll typically spend 45 minutes on each colour for each unit.

Since my recent introduction to 10mm, I stick them on those painting strips, 6 horse or 12 foot per strip, then work on 2 or 3 strips in a sitting.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mad lemmey on 14 September 2019, 06:47:48 AM
They posted light horse piggies last night, they at least have two poses.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mmcv on 14 September 2019, 10:42:16 AM
My experience is that 15mm and below benefit from some sort of painting production line technique.
By the time your reach the 6mm strips It's realy the only way

Since my recent introduction to 10mm, I stick them on those painting strips, 6 horse or 12 foot per strip, then work on 2 or 3 strips in a sitting.

Yeah absolutely. I tend to stick them all on lolly sticks and work through large batches at a time. Doing all the jackets, all the trousers, etc. Or alternating if I'm going a mixed colours look. Though I tended to batch at 28+ too, just smaller batches!

You do need to think a lot more about how the overall unit will look compared to each individual figure.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 14 September 2019, 10:51:15 PM
A bit of a tangent.
I know Peter Berry of Baccus 6mm has a few articles on his site coaching micro newbies in the art of painting smaller scales.

There's a fair bit of painting experience here.
Do you think we could cobble something a bit more 10mm specific together for Pendraken's hallowed pages?

He said in a  fit of Saturday night al-co-turism.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leon on 14 September 2019, 11:41:45 PM
Do you think we could cobble something a bit more 10mm specific together for Pendraken's hallowed pages?

Definitely, it's something I've got on my list to sort out in the new year.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 14 September 2019, 11:47:56 PM
Definitely, it's something I've got on my list to sort out in the new year.

If you're open to a compendium of different painter's suggestions, then count me in.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Leon on 14 September 2019, 11:49:28 PM
If you're open to a compendium of different painter's suggestions, then count me in.

I'd originally planned on using the painters that we've had doing our website photos (JAD, Kev Rouse, Matt J) but I'll bear your offer in mind.  Were you thinking a full tutorial on your methods or more of a list of advice and suggestions?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: paulr on 15 September 2019, 12:35:20 AM
A really good idea, the challenge here is there are a wide range of styles and approaches to painting :-\

For the novice you may want to start with some basic advise (brighter colours, stronger contrast) and perhaps basic tutorials on a couple of different methods (e.g. block painting over a dark under coat cf block painting and a wash)

You could then add tutorials / advice on more advanced techniques

Also important to talk about 'wargaming standard' compared to master pieces...

Basing is another factor that can make or break the look of troops, particularly for the smaller scales


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mollinary on 15 September 2019, 08:43:58 AM
Definitely, it's something I've got on my list to sort out in the new year.

Didnít Andy Mac produce a guide of how he painted the AWI figures for Dazza a few years ago? I seem to remember downloading it.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Techno on 15 September 2019, 08:59:31 AM
I'm sure there are at least a couple of "How I paint 10mm figures" written by some of our esteemed colleagues hidden somewhere on the forum.  :-\

Two or three years ago ? (Which probably means they've been there a lot longer than that.) :-[

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: ianrs54 on 15 September 2019, 09:01:59 AM
Perhaps we need a dedicated folder for them ?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mollinary on 15 September 2019, 09:17:35 AM
Andy Macís was January 2012, but I can no longer follow the link.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Chad on 15 September 2019, 10:17:15 AM
I think there are a couple of problems painting small scale. The first is age. Despite using a magnifying headset 10mm are becoming more difficult to paint, so I temporarily upscale to regain my confidence . The second is the improved quality of small scales. If you are used to 28mm/15mm then you enjoy painting the detail, but when 10mm/6mm have comparatively good detail I feel compelled to paint it out of habit. The result is that I can never feel satisfied with a Ďquickí paint job and as a result have yet to be happy painting 6mm.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Techno on 15 September 2019, 10:47:00 AM
Perhaps we need a dedicated folder for them ?

Totally agree !  :-bd

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: ianrs54 on 15 September 2019, 12:10:44 PM
Well I is usually right, and modest as well


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 15 September 2019, 02:33:12 PM
I'd originally planned on using the painters that we've had doing our website photos (JAD, Kev Rouse, Matt J) but I'll bear your offer in mind.  Were you thinking a full tutorial on your methods or more of a list of advice and suggestions?

My painting's not of the standard to do a Dallimore "Painting by numbers" with pictures.

When I've done these in the past, It's been a checklist of things, which if got right will enhance the overall look of the painters work.
It won't turn anybody into Michelangelo, but gets good results from my own limited ability.

My own view is that only about 20% of the effort consists of daubing the paint onto the figures.
This is particularly true of the smaller scales where preparation pays great dividends later in the process.
 * Inspecting the figures, cleanup, and sanding the underside of the bases.
 * Sorting the figures by pose then grouping them into unit sized batches.
 * Sticking them onto painting sticks.

 Then there's the artwork of painting, followed by

 * Basing.
 * Texturing the bases.
 * Sealing / varnishing.

I'm sure one of your regulars could bookend the painting guides with these steps.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Steve J on 15 September 2019, 03:44:40 PM
Bases, back and flags make a huge differnce at this scale as, once on the table, this is pretty much what you see. As noted, brighter colours work, which I've learnt recently as my figures that look fine close up, become rather dull once on the games table.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Sandinista on 16 September 2019, 11:53:39 PM
Flags make a huge difference, good flags can distract from an average paint job. No matter what scale I use I always spend a lot of time on the flags.

Cheers
Ian


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: FierceKitty on 17 September 2019, 01:33:56 AM
Same here. In ancients you have shields; later you have flags.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mad lemmey on 17 September 2019, 12:48:51 PM
Pictures of Roman auxilia today


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: steve_holmes_11 on 18 September 2019, 01:18:06 PM
Same here. In ancients you have shields; later you have flags.

By Napoleonic times I find headgear is the most important part of the unit.
This applies to formed infantry or cavalry.
With the cavalry, a decent looking blaze on most horses noses also goes a long way to getting things looking right.


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mad lemmey on 18 September 2019, 04:30:17 PM
Legionarii today


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Raider4 on 18 September 2019, 04:49:29 PM
Pictures of Roman auxilia today

I can't see no picture?


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: Fenton on 18 September 2019, 04:53:46 PM
I think the arms on the command figures are far too long

https://www.facebook.com/196181460427546/posts/2504579779587691/


Title: Re: Are Gripping Beast moving into 10mm?
Post by: mollinary on 18 September 2019, 04:59:01 PM
I think the arms on the command figures are far too long

https://www.facebook.com/196181460427546/posts/2504579779587691/

You may be right, but I think on balance these are the nicest of the new figures. The Auxilia might have been Ok if it was not for that very 70s figure in the rear rank doing his spear balancing act.