Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => WW2 Requests => Topic started by: Sunray on 24 May 2019, 08:45:13 AM



Title: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 24 May 2019, 08:45:13 AM
This is not a request.  More an opinion poll.  The family visited Crete a few months ago on a winter break, and I revelled in the WW2 history of the island.  The Crete people are justly proud of their spirited resistance against the Nazis.

The German invasion - especially the airborne element - was a close run thing.  Even with depleted logistics (left behind on mainland Greece) the Aussie and New Zealanders gave a much vaunted German paras a bloody nose. The Greek units and cadets fought with reckless gallantry.

Never again did the German airborne deploy a combat jump.  See the trailer video for "the 11th Day" on You Tube

The set piece battles like the Maleme airfield are easy to translate to a board.

Now: - Would there be a demand for a small range of ANZAC troops in campaign hats and the odd tin helmet ?- have a look at Plastic Soldier Review , Revell WW2 Australian infantry  02501 - and you will get the flavour of the figures.  The Revell sculpts do reflect the uniforms/kit quite accurately.   In addition to Crete these figures would also serve in Tobruk/early Western Desert - as research shows the 8th Army were not all in Bombay Bloomers.

Rumour Control (the Ultra of the Pendraken Forum) indicates that Techno is (like Dobby the house elf) "free at last" to sculpt WW2  :)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: pierre the shy on 24 May 2019, 10:28:19 AM
+1

fighting through Greece and Crete with these guys plus the hodge podge of British, other Commonweath and Greek units against various German outfits in company sized actions would be good.....even got TFL's Greece suppliment for IABSM somewhere on my PC.

   


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Techno on 24 May 2019, 10:50:01 AM
Hmmmm.... :)

If Leon fancies those, and there's a demand for them, I'm up for that.  :-bd

(Though, that's once my finger has stopped bleeding......I found a new way of injuring myself this morning.....I needed to make some ultra tiny 'circles' in the putty....Normal way of doing this is to get out one of the 'de-sharpened' hypodermic syringes, that I blagged off the vets YONKS ago, and press that into the putty once that's started to cure.
The finest 'needle' that I usually use looked a smidgeon to big.....So a quick look in one of my 'useful' boxes revealed a brand new (still wrapped) smaller gauge needle.....Huzzah !!

Right then...time to grind the sharp point away.....Reached over to get the carborundum disc, and stuck the now unwrapped needle into a digit.....Didn't even feel it !
You wouldn't believe how much such a tiny hole could bleed......Another one of Mark's plasters bit the dust.  :D)

Cheers - Dobby. X_X


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Matt J on 24 May 2019, 10:53:35 AM
Hang on, hang on....!

I've got a bunch of Arab Isreali AFV's needing some infantry support first!  Before Phil goes wandering off to Crete  ;)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 24 May 2019, 11:24:40 AM
Hang on, hang on....!

 Before Phil goes wandering off to Crete  ;)

Wandering off to Crete....yes, that sounds a reasonable expense in Wargames research.  Help Techno recover from self inflicted injury.

The Revell plastics have 13 poses.  Take out the "silly" and you are left with say - 2 advancing - 2 firing - 1 tommygun - one bren advancing/ one firing and  2 command = 9 figures . Add rest from existing Brits. - Dump in German paras and game on.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: GrumpyOldMan on 25 May 2019, 12:04:16 AM
Wandering off to Crete....yes, that sounds a reasonable expense in Wargames research.  Help Techno recover from self inflicted injury.

The Revell plastics have 13 poses.  Take out the "silly" and you are left with say - 2 advancing - 2 firing - 1 tommygun - one bren advancing/ one firing and  2 command = 9 figures . Add rest from existing Brits. - Dump in German paras and game on.

Talk about serendipity, I'm currently reading Beevor's book on Crete:-
(https://d1w7fb2mkkr3kw.cloudfront.net/assets/images/book/lrg/9780/1431/9780143126423.jpg)

What about the British troops in Slouch hat BRF19-21, couldn't they be used in a pinch? I know that in my myopic state that anything at more than arm's length suffices  :D :D

Wasn't there some 8th army in greatcoat or am I dreaming awake again?? You could probably smuggle in some BEF as well.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: John Cook on 25 May 2019, 11:20:46 PM
The campaign hat doesn't seem to have been very typical in combat.  Most Kiwis in Greece, Crete and N Africa are photographed in helmets or side hats, even tropical helmets are more common than the campaign hat.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: paulr on 26 May 2019, 02:30:11 AM
The lemon squeezer, as most Kiwi would refer to the campaign hat, was more for parades and formal occasions and possibly leave than battle


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: fsn on 26 May 2019, 07:47:22 AM
(https://www.cwgc.org/-/media/images/cwgc/pages/carousels/second-world-war/the-battle-for-crete/2.ashx)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/48/702/super_000000.jpg)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/53/650/large_000000.jpg)(http://www.privateletters.net/images/img/photos_mto/NZealand_lg.jpg)(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/styles/fullsize/public/images/stories/crete/crete-046.jpg?itok=RqH1KJpr)

Looks like helmets all the way. Either the desert or BEF ranges would cover Crete.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: John Cook on 26 May 2019, 12:47:14 PM
(https://www.cwgc.org/-/media/images/cwgc/pages/carousels/second-world-war/the-battle-for-crete/2.ashx)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/48/702/super_000000.jpg)(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/53/650/large_000000.jpg)(http://www.privateletters.net/images/img/photos_mto/NZealand_lg.jpg)(https://nzhistory.govt.nz/files/styles/fullsize/public/images/stories/crete/crete-046.jpg?itok=RqH1KJpr)

Looks like helmets all the way. Either the desert or BEF ranges would cover Crete.


That's what I used but I would like a model of the bloke in those trousers - fifth in the row, top right photo.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: fsn on 26 May 2019, 02:58:12 PM
(https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/48/702/super_000000.jpg)

Yes. He does look like he's in the wrong queue.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Dr Dave on 26 May 2019, 03:21:37 PM
I don’t think he’s a New Zealander?

He, and several of his chums, look to be Gurkhas.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: fsn on 26 May 2019, 03:29:04 PM
The caption said Maori.

"Maori troops line up on the quayside at Alexandria in Egypt following their evacuation from Crete"

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-battle-of-crete
 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-battle-of-crete)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Dr Dave on 26 May 2019, 04:16:24 PM
It wouldn’t be the first time that a museum has incorrectly captioned a picture. I don’t think they’d be playing for the All Blacks, but I could be wrong....


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: fsn on 26 May 2019, 05:27:42 PM
28th Maori Bttn fought in Greece and Crete

https://28maoribattalion.org.nz/story-of-the-28th/greece-and-crete (https://28maoribattalion.org.nz/story-of-the-28th/greece-and-crete)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 26 May 2019, 07:59:06 PM
28th Maori Bttn fought in Greece and Crete

https://28maoribattalion.org.nz/story-of-the-28th/greece-and-crete (https://28maoribattalion.org.nz/story-of-the-28th/greece-and-crete)

Quite right Nobby ! Two comments if I may:

First -the only Ghurkhas in the theatre (1940/41)were the 2/7th - captured at Tobruk.  Those attached to the Indian Army  2/3 and 2/4 were not deployed to Greece with the 4th Indian Division until 1944.

Secondly - the second soldier is the front file has classic Maori features and he (or his twin!) pop up in a montage of 28th (Maori) Battalion images.  The Battalion fought with great gallantry in covering the withdrawal from Crete.  You also find "Maoris" of mixed race.

Several accounts quote Rommel as an admirer of the Maori élan and fighting spirit.   


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: paulr on 27 May 2019, 01:24:57 AM
The majority of the guys in the queue certainly look Maori to me
Number 5 looks to have acquired a thousand yard stare which is not surprising given what they went through X_X
The pockets in those trousers would certainly help when ‘foraging’
Number 4 has an ‘acquired’ weapon which was a common occurrence with the Maoris  ;)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 27 May 2019, 09:43:58 AM
The officer (?) to the right of the file is in the Lemon squeezer.  The practice with distinctive headgear in elite/distinctive  units is to wear it when there is no danger of mortars/HE.

1.  Helmets (ww2) are heavy, hot and uncomfortable.  They won't stop a full bore rifle round.

2. The beret or campaign hat carries its own mojo.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: paulr on 27 May 2019, 08:12:09 PM
The officer (?) to the right of the file is in the Lemon squeezer.  The practice with distinctive headgear in elite/distinctive  units is to wear it when there is no danger of mortars/HE.

The caption said Maori.

"Maori troops line up on the quayside at Alexandria in Egypt following their evacuation from Crete"

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-battle-of-crete
 (https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-battle-of-crete)

Well spotted Sunray, he's probably a 'base type' up from Maadi Camp


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Orcs on 28 May 2019, 12:52:22 PM
I want some floppy hatted infantry to do 14th army in Burma.  The suggested range would be suitable.



Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 28 May 2019, 02:11:37 PM
I want some floppy hatted infantry to do 14th army in Burma.  The suggested range would be suitable.



All votes added.  A long way to go before we hit a viable sculpt quota. 

The only thing in our favour is that it will stimulate the sale of a heap of existing Pendraken figures and AFVs. BEF & Desert Brits,  German paras, ACT13 (assault glider ) plus carriers, mortars, 25pdrs, Mark V light tanks .....and two Tillies (now those could be game changers....no pun intended.  :)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: ianrs54 on 28 May 2019, 03:55:58 PM
THEY BROKE DOWN !!!


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Dr Dave on 28 May 2019, 06:00:58 PM
Isn’t it the case that a different command pack would suffice, just of officers?

Aussie in bush hat
NZ in lemon squeezer
Scots in tam o’shanter
Others?



Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 28 May 2019, 06:40:34 PM
Isn’t it the case that a different command pack would suffice, just of officers?

Aussie in bush hat
NZ in lemon squeezer
Scots in tam o’shanter
Others?



Interesting idea.  We did that in the Korean range with one solitary French officer with his beret pulled the wrong way. Makes a great proxy for an FFL merc like Steiner.  :)

As to a broken down Matilda -  throw a six to fix ?


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: ianrs54 on 29 May 2019, 07:56:31 AM
No spares for them, not certain how they got there, as no infantry tank rgts were detailed for Greece.

IanS


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 29 May 2019, 11:46:07 AM
No spares for them, not certain how they got there, as no infantry tank rgts were detailed for Greece.

IanS

Interesting.

My only secondary source is After the Battle (Nos 47 & 175) authors Plowman, Grieve and Watson, who "with dogged research" , established the fate of the NINE Matildas of B Squadron the 7th Royal Tank Regiment.

You can get downloads at £6 from www.afterthebattle.com  Let us know if you unearth anything  :)


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: John Cook on 30 May 2019, 04:58:36 AM
This has lots of useful stuff.

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a491531.pdf

Many of the RA batteries were equipped with captured Italian guns.


Title: Re: WW2 ANZAC troops - Operation Mercury
Post by: Sunray on 30 May 2019, 09:22:47 AM
A good academic study John.  Thanks for sharing.  :) 

I have downloaded to read at leisure on the train.