Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting Diaries => Topic started by: mmcv on 20 January 2019, 11:18:43 PM



Title: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 20 January 2019, 11:18:43 PM
Hey folks,

I started on an English Civil War project a few months back and while progress has been slower than I'd hope (pesky real life getting in the way of painting!), it's coming along well.

I'm basing the armies roughly on Nasbey with a well equipped but largely newly recruited New Model Army and the ragtag but battle hardened Royalists. I'm starting with a few regiments each side to get some battles going and will add to it over time.

At this point I have most of the NMA painted and just need to paint up a few more bits and bobs to add some flavour into the mix. I thought it would be a good time to start up a project thread to share thoughts and pictures.

While I don't quite have the painting skills to match up to the excellent Cheriton based project by Paul and Pierre (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,17480.0.html) I've found my painting coming on a bit from my first major project (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,18100.0.html) and hopefully it'll continue to improve as I continue adding to them and take on new projects!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 20 January 2019, 11:33:59 PM
I spent a lot of time pondering over basing and unit layouts. I've come to a solution for the foot regiments that I'm pretty happy with, namely three bases on 40*30 with a 40*10 behind each. I'm adding magnetic paper to the bases so I can make magnetised movement trays and labels. I'll probably keep the trays flush and invisible, though have been experimenting with bordered sabots too.

My initial plan was 15 units to a base in three rows of five, but when I came to putting the painted models on I found that looked a little too crushed and have gone with 12 in three rows of four each.

Cavalry basing I'm still playing about with. I'm thinking using a flying v shape layout for royalist gallopers and a double row layout for parliament trotters, but not sure how many bases or models to use. Possibly two 40*40 bases with 6 troopers for gallopers and 8 for trotters, but that might look too sparse in the face of a regiment of foot. Another alternative is three bases with 9 and 12 total troopers respectively. I want to get a few more painted up and can see how they'll look properly. For some reason it's just not the same working out how positioning will look with unpainted models!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 20 January 2019, 11:57:24 PM
My current dilemma is deciding on a flag size standard for the units of foot. The strictly proportional standard looks a little small so likely need to go with something bigger, though that may mean modding the standard bearer to fit it.

I've some examples of what sizes I'm playing about with below with still l me hastily put together flags:

(https://i.imgur.com/3kyDJGw.jpg)

Counting 1 to 6 left to right, my favourites are probably 3, 5 and 6. 2 is too small, 4 too wide. 1 I'm unsure of but think might be too big even if I modified the bearer.

What do you fine fellows of the forum think on the sizes?

The flags in with a pike block for context:
(https://i.imgur.com/pyxAPO0.jpg)

Once I settle on a flag type I'll put up proper pictures of the finished units.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 20 January 2019, 11:58:13 PM
P.S. I'm trying out imgur rather than Google for the photos, let me know if they show okay!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 21 January 2019, 02:09:57 AM
 :-bd =D> :-bd

A couple of observations:
  • I went with 12mm square flags (6'2" @ 1/150) these looked about the right size to me, and I've seen references to 6' square flags. I add about 5mm to the standard bearer's pole, in the middle of the flag
  • I've seen several references that indicate that both Pike and Shot were 6 ranks deep so I have gone with only 2 figures deep (2 ranks of 5 on a 40x30). I admit the Pike do look odd to wargamers initially


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 21 January 2019, 07:21:52 AM
Damn fine work on the figures !!
I like those a lot.  8)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mollinary on 21 January 2019, 08:09:57 AM
Cavalry basing I'm still playing about with. I'm thinking using a flying v shape layout for royalist gallopers and a double row layout for parliament trotters, but not sure how many bases or models to use. Possibly two 40*40 bases with 6 troopers for gallopers and 8 for trotters, but that might look too sparse in the face of a regiment of foot. Another alternative is three bases with 9 and 12 total troopers respectively. I want to get a few more painted up and can see how they'll look properly. For some reason it's just not the same working out how positioning will look with unpainted models!

If you are basing your armies on Naseby, you may wish to think about whether you need any trotters at all. Most authorities seem to be believe that the deeper Dutch style had gone out of use by about the end of 1643, and that by 1645 there would hvae been little or no difference in tactical approach between the hirse of the two sides.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 21 January 2019, 08:24:34 AM
:-bd =D> :-bd

A couple of observations:
  • I went with 12mm square flags (6'2" @ 1/150) these looked about the right size to me, and I've seen references to 6' square flags. I add about 5mm to the standard bearer's pole, in the middle of the flag
  • I've seen several references that indicate that both Pike and Shot were 6 ranks deep so I have gone with only 2 figures deep (2 ranks of 5 on a 40x30). I admit the Pike do look odd to wargamers initially

I did toy with the two row idea but found I wanted a bit more of a visual block on the base, so with the drum and standard of makes it 4*4. I've kept the musketeers similarity deep as the musketeers seemed to be deep as the pike quite often.


I think flag number 5 is 12*12, I thought I had an 11*11 in there too but a quick measure this morning seems not so will have to find that one and stick it on too to see. Number 3 is actually 10*12 which while not the traditional square doesn't look wildly out of place. May try a 10*11 too. Gives the bigger look without pole lengthening.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 21 January 2019, 08:29:54 AM
If you are basing your armies on Naseby, you may wish to think about whether you need any trotters at all. Most authorities seem to be believe that the deeper Dutch style had gone out of use by about the end of 1643, and that by 1645 there would hvae been little or no difference in tactical approach between the hirse of the two sides.

My thinking with the trotters is I can use them for other earlier battles in future as Dutch and at Nasbey they can represent the more disciplined nature of the likes of the Ironsides which some rule sets I've looked into differentiate with special rules. As you say both fought much the same so in something like Naseby there's less need to show different styles beyond look and special rules.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 21 January 2019, 08:30:39 AM
Damn fine work on the figures !!
I like those a lot.  8)

Cheers - Phil

Thanks, I'll get some proper pics done up when they're all put together!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 22 January 2019, 08:20:34 AM
Down to the final four flags options:

10*12 10*11 12*12 11*11 with a 10*10 for comparison.

(https://i.imgur.com/ZPvfiGk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GRduJDh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1wORTmZ.jpg)

I'm leaning towards the 10*11 or 10*12 as you get the bigger surface area without additional height and with a crinkled flag and the attachment to the pole they still look fairly square.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: fsn on 22 January 2019, 09:17:47 AM
As with so many things in life, I think bigger is better. For some reason, I think of ECW flags as being square, so I would go for the 12x12.



Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Westmarcher on 22 January 2019, 11:29:00 AM
I've come across this topic late in the day, so assume the Pendraken flags don't actually fit the flag poles? Anyhoo, according to my 'go to' book for this era (I only have one  :-[ ), Haythornthwaite's The English Civil War 1642-1651; An Illustrated Military History, Foot Colours were usually 6.5 feet (2 metres) square. Therefore if you consider average height to be about 5 feet 6 inches*, a 12mm by 12mm flag on a 10mm scale miniature seems reasonable. No doubt sizes varied due to the fact that many regiments were raised by local gentry and landowners, etc. (nor would personal standards be uniform in size, I would imagine).  If you are re-sizing your own, I would therefore aim for square but when actually re-sizing, add in a millimetre or two to the width to account for the wrap around the pole (experimentation should reveal the correct amount to use). It almost goes without saying you also want to make sure you have a spear tip showing above the flag.

From a 'practical' viewpoint, I wouldn't go too large, scale wise, either. As a skinny teenager in the Boys Brigade, I learned an important lesson about flag sizes and weight of cloth. One Easter, we had to march from our halls to the church and I was given the honour of standard bearer at the head of the column. When the flag is unfurled in a strong breeze, it was then that I discovered you can only physically hold it up for so long before fatigue sets in or your arms break(!).  ;D

* According to a study by economist John Komlos and Francesco Cinnirella, in the first half of the 18th century, the average height of an English male was 165 cm (5 ft 5 in), and the average height of an Irish male was 168 cm (5 ft 6 in). The estimated mean height of English, German, and Scottish soldiers was 163.6 cm 165.9 cm (5 ft 4.4 in 5 ft 5.3 in) for the period as a whole, while that of Irish was 167.9 cm (5 ft 6.1 in). The average height of male slaves and convicts in North America was 171 cm (5 ft 7 in).

The height of the English, Irish and Saxon populations in the first half of the 18th century is estimated on the basis of North American military records. English and Irish male heights are estimated at c. 165 cm, and 168 cm respectively. These values are below those obtained from the only other sample available for the period pertaining to British and Irish men, namely those of runaway indentured and convict servants in colonial North America. At c. 164 cm Saxon and German military heights appear to be near the bottom of the European height distribution in this period. The English were about as tall as Czechs and Northern French, but shorter than the Irish and Hungarians. A large decline in English heights is evident among the birth cohorts of 17251729, suggesting that the subsistence crisis of this period must have had a substantial lasting impact on the nutritional status of the cohort born during a time of nutritional deprivation. American-born colonial soldiers of the late 1770s were on average more than 7.6 cm (3 inches) taller than their English counterparts who served in Royal Marines at the same time.



Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 22 January 2019, 12:53:10 PM
Thanks for your excellent information!

I've come across this topic late in the day, so assume the Pendraken flags don't actually fit the flag poles?

The Pendraken flags seem to be 11*11 so would be needing a bit of modification to the poles yeah. They also have a white stripe down the middle where it connects to the flagpole which would need to be painted in to a matching colour. Given the relative simplicity of most of the flags of the period I'm intending to make my own. I may regret this when it comes to the likes of the Kings Lifeguard, but what's life without a bit of a challenge here and there!

Anyhoo, according to my 'go to' book for this era (I only have one  :-[ ), Haythornthwaite's The English Civil War 1642-1651; An Illustrated Military History, Foot Colours were usually 6.5 feet (2 metres) square. Therefore if you consider average height to be about 5 feet 6 inches*, a 12mm by 12mm flag on a 10mm scale miniature seems reasonable. No doubt sizes varied due to the fact that many regiments were raised by local gentry and landowners, etc. (nor would personal standards be uniform in size, I would imagine).  If you are re-sizing your own, I would therefore aim for square but when actually re-sizing, add in a millimetre or two to the width to account for the wrap around the pole (experimentation should reveal the correct amount to use). It almost goes without saying you also want to make sure you have a spear tip showing above the flag.

I had them being 6ft square in my head, good to know there's a bit of variety in scale, 6.5ft must have been a huge one to handle for someone of shorter than modern height! I've found adding 1-2mm (probably works out about 1.5 mm with pencil lines) to be about right for the wrap around.

From a 'practical' viewpoint, I wouldn't go too large, scale wise, either. As a skinny teenager in the Boys Brigade, I learned an important lesson about flag sizes and weight of cloth. One Easter, we had to march from our halls to the church and I was given the honour of standard bearer at the head of the column. When the flag is unfurled in a strong breeze, it was then that I discovered you can only physically hold it up for so long before fatigue sets in or your arms break(!).  ;D

I was never accused of being skinny, even as a teenager, but I do remember flags being somewhat unwieldy even indoors, let alone when the wind catches them!

As with so many things in life, I think bigger is better. For some reason, I think of ECW flags as being square, so I would go for the 12x12.

I think I'm going to have to lengthen the pole regardless to fit without squishing the ends, so 12*12 may be the best option, though don't want to have to make the pole longer than the pikes. Think I'm just going to have to mod one of the poles the way Paul suggested earlier and see how it looks.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 22 January 2019, 12:54:24 PM
In the meantime, think I'll see how much of some horse I can get painted in the 15 mins I have before I have to head back to work!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 22 January 2019, 01:20:03 PM
Answer: 23 faces and 15 buff coats base coated on some troopers in hats.

One of the packs had an extra trumpeter in place if a trooper, hence the uneven number!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 23 January 2019, 10:44:27 PM
Got a few horse painted today. Now more decisions, decisions.... how to base?

The question I've always had with cavalry vs infantry is if the frontages were much different. For my Crusaders I went with a smaller frontage for cavalry, however, my sense is for this period is they were probably fairly similar so using 120*40 same as foot makes sense.

Here's a few options I've been toying with:

(https://i.imgur.com/jX85dmN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BBkLCq9.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/LXFZduJ.jpg)

Using nine figures is obviously the more economical option, though will have to ask nice Mr Leon for some extra cornets and trumpets in my next order. Using twelve gives a bit more density. I had tried fifteen as well but looked a bit too irregular on 3 40*40s, unless I went back to my original plan of a 100mm frontage:

(https://i.imgur.com/k2cEng5.jpg)

But think that's going to be too dense. Option 3, the flying v style, I'll definitely be doing for the Royalists (with a cornet and trumpeter at the tips) but am inclined to give the parliament forces a more regular disciplined look. Especially for the Ironsides.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 24 January 2019, 03:35:29 AM
I went with 4 Horse on a 40mm wide base in a single rank, three bases to a unit. One with coronet, one with trumpeter and one with an Officer.

I've gone with a mix of formations with mainly Vs and lines, both some what ragged given the level of training of most of the units and the difficulties of getting horses to conform to drill ;)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: fred. on 24 January 2019, 07:28:58 AM
Id go with at least 4 cavalry figures to a base.  If you go with the Flying V formation the this will look good, it Id still be putting some extra figures on the middle base.

You want them to look like a unit of heavy cavalry, not a skirmish line!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 January 2019, 07:57:14 AM
I went with 4 Horse on a 40mm wide base in a single rank, three bases to a unit. One with coronet, one with trumpeter and one with an Officer.

I've gone with a mix of formations with mainly Vs and lines, both some what ragged given the level of training of most of the units and the difficulties of getting horses to conform to drill ;)

Where do you put your officer in the formation? Front and centre seems like the best place but difficult in a 4 man base. I know in many ancients they were in the right of the line but not sure if it's the same in this period.

You want them to look like a unit of heavy cavalry, not a skirmish line!

Very true!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: pierre the shy on 24 January 2019, 09:11:42 AM
Your ECW stuff looks very good mmcv.

Basing will come down to personal preferences and what rules you settle on for playing your ECW period games.

FWIW here's a couple of pics of how I have based up my Scots ECW cavalry for "For King @ Parliament" rules:

"Swedish" style formations are in one rank of 3 40x40mm saboted bases with Command in the middle (can easily change the arrangement of the sabots as required):
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4822/46372708052_e4d4d57c95_c.jpg)

"Dutch" style pistollers in deeper formation - (a small unit in FK@P terms) - 40 x 40mm bases in two ranks, command in front:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4811/46349665071_c9167520c6_c.jpg)

I went for a slightly disordered look with each base having a different vee or echeloned formation.

I hope that helps.

Please keep posting about your ECW project, always interesting to see how others do things.

Cheers
Peter
  


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Westmarcher on 24 January 2019, 09:36:09 AM
Ultimately, you should just do what pleases you most. Personally, my horse are based 3 to a 25mm x 25mm base in a slightly randomly staggered way (these are Pendraken SYW cavalry, btw). Plus, I'm also thinking of the formations in Streeter's depiction of Naseby (don't know if he was there but he was certainly alive during the ECW)(see link).
https://www.rct.uk/collection/750070/plan-of-battle-of-naseby-1645 (https://www.rct.uk/collection/750070/plan-of-battle-of-naseby-1645)

So, with these two factors in mind, 3 horse on a 40mm x 40mm(?) base look a tad 'lost' to me.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Womble67 on 24 January 2019, 12:32:18 PM
You've done a really good job with them

Take care

Andy


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 January 2019, 12:37:30 PM
Your ECW stuff looks very good mmcv.

Thanks!

Basing will come down to personal preferences and what rules you settle on for playing your ECW period games.

Yeah, I want to keep it fairly flexible as there's a number of good rule sets out there for the period, but don't want to spend half the game arranging bases so 3 bases on a sabot/movement tray is probably a good balance.

FWIW here's a couple of pics of how I have based up my Scots ECW cavalry for "For King @ Parliament" rules

...

I hope that helps.

It is helpful thanks, I think 4 on a base is probably going to be the best density, maybe in a mix of staggered, well formed and the v.

Please keep posting about your ECW project, always interesting to see how others do things.

I will! It's quite useful getting the feedback and seeing what others are doing rather than just sitting staring at rows of mdf and blu tac myself! I enjoy being able to engage in aspects of the hobby through the forum too when not necessarily at the painting table.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 January 2019, 12:47:04 PM
Ultimately, you should just do what pleases you most. Personally, my horse are based 3 to a 25mm x 25mm base in a slightly randomly staggered way (these are Pendraken SYW cavalry, btw). Plus, I'm also thinking of the formations in Streeter's depiction of Naseby (don't know if he was there but he was certainly alive during the ECW)(see link).
https://www.rct.uk/collection/750070/plan-of-battle-of-naseby-1645 (https://www.rct.uk/collection/750070/plan-of-battle-of-naseby-1645)

So, with these two factors in mind, 3 horse on a 40mm x 40mm(?) base look a tad 'lost' to me.

I do like density, one of the reasons I favour 10mm is for the density/detail balance. Though density doesn't always work for my bank balance!

I think you're right on the 3 being too sparse. I've poured over that picture myself many times, though I've not been sure whether it's accurate or just a representative style. It was that picture that inspired my original plan to do the two sets of six on 40*40s with a 20*40 for command. I'm half drawn to try it again after all! Most rule sets don't seem to have too much issue with a slight discrepancy in horse/foot base widths and could easily add in a sabot or extra empty base to pad out if needed.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 January 2019, 12:47:35 PM
You've done a really good job with them

Take care

Andy

Thanks Andy  :)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 January 2019, 06:38:14 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/uTJjpre.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/M8yWnQv.jpg)

More options


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 25 January 2019, 01:07:37 AM
Where do you put your officer in the formation? Front and centre seems like the best place but difficult in a 4 man base. I know in many ancients they were in the right of the line but not sure if it's the same in this period.

I put all my command figures (Officer, Coronet, Trumpeter) second from the right which spreads them through the unit, the base with the coronet in the center of the unit. I tend to think of the three bases per unit as troops (or pairs of troops) per regiment.

It all comes down to a balance of what looks 'right' to you, how many figures you can afford and how much time you have to paint...


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 25 January 2019, 11:26:04 PM
I put all my command figures (Officer, Coronet, Trumpeter) second from the right which spreads them through the unit, the base with the coronet in the center of the unit. I tend to think of the three bases per unit as troops (or pairs of troops) per regiment.

It all comes down to a balance of what looks 'right' to you, how many figures you can afford and how much time you have to paint...


I see what you mean, went back and looked at some of your earlier posts, that's a good way to think of it.

I'd love to be able to do large numbers of models per unit, sadly time and finances are not on my side at the moment and likely won't be for a while to come, so finding that balance that satisfies the look, cost and time investment is key!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 26 January 2019, 06:48:41 AM
Those are looking damn fine !!

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 27 January 2019, 09:02:37 PM
Extending flag poles is a nightmare  :'(

Especially when you can't find your normal superglue and try and use a different one that instantly binds everything including your skin. Goodbye handpainted flag, hello torn flag!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 27 January 2019, 11:14:25 PM
Managed to salvage one of the flags, the other has been patched and will have to see if it's okay in the light of day. Lost a flagpole in the process and had to drill for a new one. With that said, the rest of the flags went easily enough (once I found the superglue) and got the magnet paper on the bases, so that's three regiments of NMA foot done and dusted!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 28 January 2019, 06:43:17 AM
Glad it came right once you found the glue you needed, it can be pretty fiddly but well worth it for the look


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 February 2019, 11:40:54 PM
Decided I want going to get any better light any time soon so took some poor light some pics of what I have so far.

So first up I present you with the Prankmaster Gereral* of the New Model Army himself, Olly "Old Ironsides" Cromwell:

(https://i.imgur.com/8hNb2Idh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4W9M6gMh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9HicRoqh.jpg)

*He's been known to moonlight as Lt. General of the Horse as well.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 February 2019, 11:44:36 PM
Next up Sgt. Major General Phillip "Skipper" Skippon's Regiment of Foot:

(https://i.imgur.com/mizRYCoh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8us2W20h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/pSWwgcih.jpg)



Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 February 2019, 11:46:30 PM
Colonel John "Nose" Pickering's Regiment of Foot:

(https://i.imgur.com/xry8pAvh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/E5jg5Phh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ceK9cFih.jpg)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 February 2019, 11:51:53 PM
And finally, Sir Hardress "Hard Ass" Waller's Regiment of Foot:

(https://i.imgur.com/ETzfxLVh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/s5L4pNLh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/VcPQ0A4h.jpg)

You may note the repaired flag but I'm sure they had to patch up flags from time to time so decided to leave it for the moment.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mad lemmey on 08 February 2019, 11:54:02 PM
Great work.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 February 2019, 11:57:03 PM
I also have a unit of Horse based and just awaiting a flag, and another unit of Horse awaiting a cornet and trumpeter as Olly stole them "for a laugh". What a guy...

Have a batch of Royalists under the brush, Horse currently but I need to switch to infantry soon. Only so many bridles a man can paint before needing some good solid foot under the brush!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 09 February 2019, 03:41:54 AM
 :-bd =D> :-bd =D>


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Westmarcher on 09 February 2019, 03:58:43 AM
Seconded!  :-bd


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Womble67 on 09 February 2019, 08:02:56 AM
They look great

Take care

Andy


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 09 February 2019, 08:21:16 AM
They look great

They certainly do !!

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Terry37 on 10 February 2019, 03:49:42 AM
Very nicely done!

Terry


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 18 February 2019, 06:35:52 PM
Cheers guys, next up Colonel Nathaniel "Pauper" Rich's Regiment of Horse:

(https://i.imgur.com/EQS6Xmqh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BxgkUMQh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/b5PWuC5h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZMc5JxEh.jpg)

I'm not entirely happy with the flag but otherwise has come out well.

Playing with a different photo setup using my painting lamps and white paper. Let me know what you think. Definitely, need to play with my phone's focus settings though for those wider angles.

I've gone with a 100mm frontage on the Horse, slightly shorter than the 120mm frontage on the Foot. I just preferred the look of it and allows me a somewhat denser formation without using a lot more figures.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mad lemmey on 18 February 2019, 06:42:22 PM
Nicely done


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 19 February 2019, 12:04:39 AM
 :-bd =D> :-bd


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: jambo1 on 19 February 2019, 05:36:16 AM
Superb thread!! Enjoyed reading through it and looking at your progress, lovely work, really top notch. :)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 03:32:55 PM
Thanks!  :D

Had a good run at stuff this weekend.

First up a Forlorn Hope of Commanded Shot. Went with a 100mm frontage, same as the Horse.

(https://i.imgur.com/iOxPmKQh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aaKDuyGh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/g8jQCj3h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5jGYpDZh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/gA4rzmQh.jpg)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 03:33:52 PM
These are some marker units to use for things like Attached Shot and whatever else I need some sort of marker for!

(https://i.imgur.com/oVD1mZgh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/vB9y0t8h.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5tS5di0h.jpg)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 03:40:04 PM
Artillery

(https://i.imgur.com/0iN5Ntsh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zdOtyBQh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/SFCCo8ah.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/U4OsKJgh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZGX9opNh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/aKRGpuJh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/NiABbrIh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rWrJEcdh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UNCjpkYh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eK67l1Ph.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Pm3JS0mh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KQEuUCkh.jpg)

Playing about a lot with lighting here! Sorry the first few are so dark.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 03:41:47 PM
Also, have my first unit of Royalist foot (Prince Rupert's) painted and ready for basing. Just command figures and flags still to do for it.

So all around a productive weekend, first in a while that I've actually had a chance to sit for a few hours at a stretch and get some proper stuff done!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 24 February 2019, 04:49:10 PM
Lovely work, 'M' !.......The later piccies have come out oodles better, and really do your work justice !!  :-bd :-bd

Cheers - Phil.

(Who just takes snaps, because he's a lazy oik, and hopes Leon will be able to see 'something' worth looking at....I really must try and find the time to learn how to use my camera properly. :-[)



Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 05:01:19 PM
Thanks Phil,

One of my painting lamps gives very good lighting, but it's an inverted L shape rather than gooseneck so can be difficult to get the right angle without shadow. Think I'm gradually getting the lighting set up right though, and using the lamps means I don't need to worry too much about sunlight (what's that?). Played a bit with the camera settings as well. Think most camera phones come set up more for portrait style photos which, while I'm sure very good for selfies, don't help much with this style of thing!

Cheers,

Matthew


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mad lemmey on 24 February 2019, 05:30:08 PM
Superb work there


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 24 February 2019, 06:34:39 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 24 February 2019, 09:07:18 PM
Hi again, Matthew. :)

I'm definitely NOT an expert with cameras on phones.....But I imagine that on certain settings they could behave like a 'normal' digital camera.

If that IS the case......

If you use a white background, the camera will be fooled if you take a picture . It will try and make the background a fairly neutral shade (eg a mid grey) that's if there's a lot of background.....and underexpose the main subject. Conversely, if you used a black background.....The main subject itself will be overexposed and 'washed out', assuming you just use the most automatic setting on the camera.

Whatever you've done with the later pictures has worked really well....and I'd stick with that.

If the phone will allow you a manual setting......You can 'fool' the camera, by, before taking the pic, taking a reading off something that's a neutral shade.....The palm of your hand is fine for this sort of thing. If you can lock this setting into the camera....that should work as well.

I do hope this makes some sort of sense.  X_X....The more I read it back  the more it sounds like complete gibberish ! :-[

Cheers - Phil (Post modified at the fourth attempt.  ;D ;D ;D)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 09:20:19 PM
Thanks Phil, I'll give that a go. I was fiddling with the manual options though mostly made things worse.  X_X  I think at one point it did seem to be taking readings in manual mode for the later pictures so seems to have gotten something right eventually. Let's hope I can replicate it next time. I'm usually pretty good with technology, but photography isn't something I've much experience of, so a new skill to develop!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 24 February 2019, 09:42:21 PM
Me again.  ;D

Having had a quick think... You could try possibly the simplest 'cheat', and use a neutral shade background. I'm sure we've got this down somewhere else on the forum......But where ?  ;D ;D

Something like a mid grey background will make the colours on the figures 'pop'.....Because the sensors on the camera won't be fooled into over or under exposing the entire shot....especially important for the actual subject....In this case the figures !

The dire snaps of the master figures figures I send to 'Sir', are taken on a mid blue background (Which has definitely seen better days. :-[)

The green of the green stuff comes out pretty close to the real colour....Though I'll cheat, if I have to, by adjusting the brightness of the image on the PC.

Hope that makes sense too !! ;)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 24 February 2019, 10:02:38 PM
I have the felt sheet I use for my Crusades battles, which is a neutral teddy bear brown. Might work a bit better. Or I could try some grey cardboard. Plenty more playing to do, to be honest I only spent five or ten mins on these pics as was at the end of a long session, and didn't do any adjustments afterwards so I'm sure there's plenty more I can try. Thanks for all the advice, some new things to have a go at!  :D


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: jambo1 on 25 February 2019, 05:54:06 AM
Lovely work once more, really like the artillery base, super stuff!! :)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 25 February 2019, 06:49:39 AM
I have the felt sheet I use for my Crusades battles, which is a neutral teddy bear brown. Might work a bit better. Or I could try some grey cardboard. Plenty more playing to do, to be honest I only spent five or ten mins on these pics as was at the end of a long session, and didn't do any adjustments afterwards so I'm sure there's plenty more I can try. Thanks for all the advice, some new things to have a go at!  :D

I reckon that the brown felt should work quite well.....Grey cardboard should, too. :)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 07 March 2019, 10:29:54 PM
Thanks everyone! Taking Phil's advice on this one and trying with more neutral background. Seems to work well, though the focus is still a bit off. Getting there!

Prince Rupert's Bluecoats:

(https://i.imgur.com/f5JoqlRh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nKhH2XYh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/fW0jiEQh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/XRRGFYDh.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cJF7o5xh.jpg)

Added in a LoA commander that Leon kindly supplied as a sample to add a bit of variety. Can see why everyone loves the range so much, an absolute joy to paint so will be adding more in for sure to some of the command stands and units.

This will be the last for a little while as I'm away to sunny Australia for a couple of weeks on Saturday!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Poggle on 08 March 2019, 03:34:16 AM
Lovely stuff!  :-bd


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: jambo1 on 08 March 2019, 05:04:29 AM
Great looking unit, very nice indeed!! :)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 08 March 2019, 07:56:36 AM
Super stuff !!  :-bd

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mad lemmey on 08 March 2019, 08:40:57 AM
Nice


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 08 March 2019, 12:35:15 PM
Rats...I meant to mention. (Idiot, Phil)  8-}

I think that the first shots.....You've got the light source (is it sunlight ? ) behind/to  the side of the models, which is why they look a bit on the dark side.
Again the light meter will be looking for an 'average' light reading.

The last two really show your work off really nicely, M.  :)

Hope that might help !

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 March 2019, 03:51:13 PM
Thanks!

Rats...I meant to mention. (Idiot, Phil)  8-}

I think that the first shots.....You've got the light source (is it sunlight ? ) behind/to  the side of the models, which is why they look a bit on the dark side.
Again the light meter will be looking for an 'average' light reading.

The last two really show your work off really nicely, M.  :)

Hope that might help !

Cheers - Phil

It's a painting light, big inverted L thing that's over the top of them coming from the left. Haven't seen sunlight on a while now.. :P

They always look okay on the phone then when I go to upload them notice the iffiness!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 08 March 2019, 04:15:20 PM
Have you got any progs on your PC that allow you to change 'things', 'M' ?

I've got a VERY old program (ACDSee) that allows me to muck around in quite a few ways.....Lightening, darkening, adding colour, blah, blah, blah....
I still find it very useful for under or over exposed photos so that they show detail.

Does anyone know if there's a 'free' app that comes with Windows that allows you to do something similar.
Just had a quick look in the apps 'page'....But can't see one.

But you all know how hopeless I am with computers. :-[

Cheers - Phil



Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 08 March 2019, 04:36:50 PM
I'm sure there's some out there I can use to touchup. I'll maybe do some nice shots of the massed armies when they're complete and take a bit more care tidying them up.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 08 March 2019, 05:31:24 PM
 :)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Matt J on 08 March 2019, 05:50:25 PM
GIMP

(that's a recommendation not an insult  :))

free version of photoshop


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Ithoriel on 08 March 2019, 07:46:19 PM
I'll second GIMP!

I use it regularly.


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 09 March 2019, 08:53:20 AM
Thanks for popping that down, chaps. :)

Just to go off topic, a little.....While I was looking for an app that's already on the PC....I did have a bit of luck.
I found some photo's that I'd been looking for for ages. (I thought I must have deleted them....But there they were. Somewhere where I'd never thought of checking.)

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 09 July 2019, 01:16:09 PM
Getting close to finishing this phase of the project. Done a few more units and commanders since my last post. Life has been very busy lately so progress has been slooooow, just chipping away a little at a time. Just need to finish up the basing and add some magnetic paper and they'll be ready to varnish. Will post pictures when I've them out to varnish. Hopefully in the next week or so!

Then it'll be ordering some more for the next phase, though I'll likely take a break for a while and do something else for a bit!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 13 July 2019, 06:04:45 PM
Aaaaand.....done!

https://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2019/07/13/english-civil-war-progress-update/

New photos available in the link above.

Here are a few samples for a taste:

(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/img_20190713_131136357-1.jpg?w=768)

(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/img_20190713_125808278-1.jpg?w=1024)

(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/img_20190713_130901867.jpg?w=1024)

(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/img_20190713_130853792.jpg?w=1024)

More in the link above!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mad lemmey on 13 July 2019, 07:19:19 PM
Marvellous work


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 13 July 2019, 11:21:41 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd

 =D> =D> =D> a "finished" project :)


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Poggle on 14 July 2019, 03:19:19 AM
Delightfully done!  :-bd


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: d_Guy on 14 July 2019, 04:13:47 AM
Lots of handsome work. Bravo!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: Techno on 14 July 2019, 08:35:21 AM
VERY tasty work, M !!  :-bd

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: mmcv on 14 July 2019, 08:41:43 AM
Thanks everyone!
 
a "finished" project :)

Phase 1 anyway!


Title: Re: As the House is pleased to direct me... Another ECW project
Post by: paulr on 14 July 2019, 09:12:37 PM
 ;D ;D ;D