Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Releases, Requests and Photos! => Requests => Topic started by: Leon on 20 June 2018, 05:12:42 PM



Title: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Leon on 20 June 2018, 05:12:42 PM
It's about that time of year again, so here's our updated Top 10 Requests for 2018!  There's not been as many changes this time around, but we've ticked off a few things and there's been one or two updates.

Top 10 Ranges:
1.   Naps in India
2.   War of 1812
3.   1920's/1930's Gangsters
4.   Yom Kippur
5.   Modern Infantry (US/UK)
6.   Medieval Expansion
7.   Modern Insurgents (Afghan/African)
8.   Boxer Rebellion
9.   Renaissance Italian Wars
10. Mexican-American War - NEW ENTRY!

With the Aztecs ticked off, there's an opening in the Top 10 this year and we can welcome the Mexican-American conflict back into the list.  This range has bounced in and out over the years, so we'll keep an eye on it.  The appetite for modern warfare continues to grow with the Afghan and African insurgents jumping a few places to 7th.  We'll be looking to do the Yom Kippur wars in 2019 so that one will be taken care of and we might see about taking on one of the Top 2 to keep the Naps folks happy!  Also, with the Indian Mutiny coming online later this year, it might give us a indication of what the sales might be like on a Boxer Rebellion range...


Top 10 Items:
1.   WWII Italian Artillery
2.   Fantasy Bears
3.   Modern Police
4.   Elizabethan Genitor
5.   Pirates
6.   AWI Wagons/Carts
7.   SYW Ottoman's
8.   WWII Russian 37mm AA
9.   Vietnam Radio Op's
10. Armoured Mongols

We've not made much progress on the Top 10 items this year, mainly due to all of the larger projects we've been working through and also us needing to slow things down a little and have a break from sculpting.  There's only been one change to the list, with the Italian artillery jumping up into the number 1 slot so we'll definitely be getting those scheduled for later this year.  One of our sculptors is working on the Nap Dutch-Belgians at the moment but then we're going to schedule a month of odds and ends so we'll see how many of these we can squeeze into that slot.

The previous Top 10 Requests can be found here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,16373.0.html

As always, keep the requests coming and we'll do our best to fit them in!

 :D


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Steve J on 20 June 2018, 06:49:33 PM
Plenty to interest me there :). The trouble is I'd need to reinforce the attic to cope with the additions to the lead mountain :D!


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 20 June 2018, 07:18:32 PM
The Dark Lord does love to torment poor Nobby.

I've got some SCW and Naval Brigade on my painting table as I write which I'm painting up as the Spanish-American war.  :(



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Leman on 20 June 2018, 08:24:01 PM
Yanks from the Boxer rebellion would work well with that.  Just watched a double episode of El Ministerio on Netflix where two of our intrepid heroes were back at the siege of Baler on the Philippines.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: parkerm17 on 24 June 2018, 02:56:23 PM
Mexican American War

Was that the one Trump started?   If not and the 1840's are you scene, listen to radio 4 at 09:00 0n Thursday, 28th June for some background chat.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 25 June 2018, 12:36:55 PM
Yom Kippur 1973  :)
 
That is Israel, Egypt, Syrian and possibly Jordanian in terms of figures.

The Egyptians adopted a jerkin type combat garment. the Syrians are in skeleton Soviet belt order.  Both wore the Soviet gasmask bag as a satchel bag for personal kit.   

Israelis still had Uzi and FN, but AK47 and M16 via Op Nickel Grass  were also in issue.

Would the Israeli paras merit a sub range ? There is a clear dichotomy in appearance/kit with Golani and Reserve units.

That's a massive investment in sculpts !


 


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 25 June 2018, 12:44:21 PM
Well someone's got to keep Techno occupied.

Although I'm more interested in the Canal (love to be able to game those hoses), I think Syrians might be more practical in terms of using as proxies. 

Would the Israeli paras merit a sub range ?
Yes.  :D


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Orcs on 25 June 2018, 04:51:21 PM
Leon, 

You have to do the Arab-Israeli wars.  The number of Centurions and all its derivaives you could sell to FSN would send you am M'lady to the Maldives for a month.



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 25 June 2018, 05:48:27 PM
That's true.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: FierceKitty on 10 August 2018, 02:14:11 PM
A group of druids would surely have plenty of appeal to ancients, dark ages, and fantasy gamers.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Wulf on 10 August 2018, 02:31:06 PM
Would the 'Modern Police' be Brits or Yanks? Riot cops or Bobbys on the beat?

Not that I think they'd be all that popular, I'd like to see some unarmed (or, at least, no firearms) rioting/unhappy modern civilians.

I still want to try that 'RIOT!' game with proper minis.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 10 August 2018, 08:51:08 PM
Would the 'Modern Police' be Brits or Yanks? Riot cops or Bobbys on the beat?

Not that I think they'd be all that popular, I'd like to see some unarmed (or, at least, no firearms) rioting/unhappy modern civilians.

I still want to try that 'RIOT!' game with proper minis.

Pendraken started at the early end of the Cold War.   Timecast in the mid 1980s. No plans for modern civilians- as far as I know. The Dropzone kit does give one nice modern cityscape.

If you were planning a Winter of Discontent game you have the Falkland Brits to start with. A few types like you mention and you would have a Very British Civil War 1970s style.

I have been lobbying Leon for a few secret agent types.  No joy, so I converted my own from a Minifigs figure.  I call him Harry Palmer as he was created/works on a budget.  He is currently starring as an arms dealer in my Biafra era bush war.   A six +1 and he gets those 106mm RRs to the rebels.  Throw a 1 and he changes sides and supplies the Federal forces with Ferret  A/Cs.

What I would really love is Techno's take on Copplestone style Kiss Kiss Bang Bang in 10mm.   Dream on Sunray.................... :)
 


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Techno on 11 August 2018, 07:33:23 AM
What I would really love is Techno's take on Copplestone style Kiss Kiss Bang Bang in 10mm. 

I'm not sure I want to know what that looks like !! :o

Cheers - Phil  ;)


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: SV52 on 11 August 2018, 10:05:59 AM
Yeah, presumably the Mex-American is the 1846 one, San Patricios and all that?

If so, yet another one I've started in another scale  >:(  Never mind not going to happen in the near future.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Techno on 11 August 2018, 10:17:09 AM
Well......I already know what my next projects are going to be, for Da Boss !
Don't know about the other guys, though.  :-\

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 11 August 2018, 10:22:29 AM
Well......I already know what my next projects are going to be, for Da Boss !
Don't know about the other guys, though.  :-

Cheers - Phil

Yeah, we know.  8) 

On the current project- how's the Korean bike combo with DP LMG coming on ?


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: mad lemmey on 11 August 2018, 10:37:29 AM
 :D :D  :D


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Techno on 11 August 2018, 10:52:57 AM
Oh....Stop it ! :P ;)

Lemmey's going to get a load of.....Wossthislooklike, Will ? .....In the next couple of weeks.

On the current project- how's the Korean bike combo with DP LMG coming on ?

Well.....I've got a packet of bikes & riders  sitting on my desk......But I don't know when I'm going to be pulling them out of the jiffy bag.
I know I've got another 'project' to do as soon as I can.....When they arrive from Middlesbrough.....But there'll be a lot of folk that'll be happy with that.

(No clues.....Bog off !  ;)  ;D ;D ;D ;D)

Cheers - Phil



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 11 August 2018, 10:54:49 AM
I'm not sure I want to know what that looks like !! :o
James Bond. Basically sexy spies. Though there was the film with Robert Downey Jr and that was based on a book.  :-\

(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img263.jpg)
Aren't these just from "Carry on Spying"?



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: mad lemmey on 11 August 2018, 11:07:15 AM
Oh....Stop it ! :P ;)

Lemmey's going to get a load of.....Wossthislooklike, Will ? .....In the next couple of weeks.
Honestly excited to help. :) 8)


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Techno on 11 August 2018, 11:42:37 AM
Will.....

I think this'll be a lot easier than the last two 'wossnames' ranges you've been helping me with*.  :)

*...and they're nearly finished.

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: ianrs54 on 11 August 2018, 11:56:32 AM
Where are the Duck Knights, and Wombles with AK's ?  :'( :'( :d


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: mad lemmey on 11 August 2018, 12:24:42 PM
No, armoured bears and meerkats!


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 11 August 2018, 07:45:19 PM


(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img263.jpg)



I was thinking more the KGB types and Freelance agents in the Copplestone range.  Fit nicely as agents, undercover soldiers or gun dealers. Mark C. is no mean sculptor in 28mm.  His 10mm fantasy is neat too.

Does anyone else do role play skirmish in 10mm ? I introduced it to our Christmas family war game some years ago.  An espionage precursor, with the winner getting the edge.   


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 11 August 2018, 10:24:48 PM
To clarify - "kiss kiss, bang bang" was originally the sexy spies bit.

Those Cobblestone castings look like Babs Windsor, Charles Hawtry and Kenneth Williams.

The rest of the Cobblestone range are a bit more serious.

(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img121.jpg)(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img262.jpg)(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img89.jpg)

Apart maybe from the evil geniuses?
(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img279.jpg)


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 12 August 2018, 12:13:00 PM
To clarify - "kiss kiss, bang bang" was originally the sexy spies bit.

Those Cobblestone castings look like Babs Windsor, Charles Hawtry and Kenneth Williams.

The rest of the Cobblestone range are a bit more serious.

(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img121.jpg)(https://www.copplestonecastings.co.uk/images/img262.jpg)[img height=200[/img]

Thanks Nobby- its an eclectic little range in 28mm.  But the KGB type sculpts have potential in  range of games from Cold War agents/resistance, to futuristic scenarios.   Could also be used as terrorists and/or undercover soldiers.   :)  

But ...its not in the Pendraken master plan, so I will continue to look for existing figures to modify.



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Orcs on 21 August 2018, 06:45:21 AM
Well its been an easy night shift so I will put in my tuppence worth.   


Top 10 Ranges:

1.   Naps in India
2.   War of 1812
3.   1920's/1930's Gangsters
4.   Yom Kippur
5.   Modern Infantry (US/UK)
6.   Medieval Expansion
7.   Modern Insurgents (Afghan/African)
8.   Boxer Rebellion
9.   Renaissance Italian Wars
10. Mexican-American War - NEW ENTRY!

Of the Top 10 ranges I can see why most of them are there.  All but one of the top seven are essentially expansions of current ranges. 

The exception being entry number 3 1920's/1930's Gangsters.   I suspect people are going to want a lot of varied poses to make the gangs interesting, the same with the police and any other civilians.  Then to play a prohibition type scenario you will need a couple of gangs and the police. Typically this will be a skirmish type game and you will have at most a couple of gangs of 15-20 men and a similar number of Policemen, plus a few civilians.  So in all probability you will have 50 odd figures on the table.  Not only that you will probably only ever need a maximum of 60 figures.

So we have a range that requires a large amount of masters Probably a minimum of 20-30 poses. ( the same as the Carthaginian or Early Imperial Roman ranges).

Most gamers interested will probably only want a maximum of 60 figures to game the period, plus a few will be bought as partisans/civilians for other periods. compared to the Carthaginian  or Roman ranges where most gamer will want at least 300 and more likely 500+ figures for their army

Is this range really a viable range for us to ask Pendraken to produce?  Are those requesting it willing to pay a higher price per figure to make this range viable?  Obviously it is up to Pendraken to work out what is commercially viable, but I think we have to  take some responsibility when asking for stuff to consider how many we would buy and what the likely interest is to be.



Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 21 August 2018, 08:00:21 AM
Kickstarter.

There's a few naturally skirmish games - gangsters, superheroes, wild west, spy* (notice how they're also film genres) - that would require the same. I would quite happily contribute a few of my hard earned groats to development costs, and would pay a bit more for "Pendraken Premier" products - just as personality figures cost more than yer bog standard ones. Then there's the individualised figures in the Warband range. Doesn't take much to be able to differentiate figures. (Proper length of bow being one such determinant.) Guy in suit with Fedora firing shotgun from hip. Guy in suit with Fedora firing BAR from hip. Guy in suit firing Chicago Piano from hip. Dame in cloche with pistol. Dame in cloche with knife. Dame not in cloche firing two Choppers*** 

I won't be buying from ranges 1, 2, 7, 8, 9 and 10, 'cos they don't interest me. I would probably shell out for some gangsters 'cos they're pretty and I'm basically weak with very little impulse control.

It's a maths problem isn't it? Retail price = (cost of development + (expected sales  x cost of production) + markup)/expected sales**
   
In this case the cost of development would be 30 times a standard infatry pack (assuming 30 different gansters), cost of production would (I expect) be very little different from a standard pack, assume markup expectation the same and expected sales would be lower. A kickstarter would lower that risky cost of development.



*Also neolithic hunting party, deepest Africa ... struggling now
** I'm assuming an additive markup and not a multiplicative
*** Really annoyed because she'd lost her cloche


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Orcs on 21 August 2018, 11:48:07 AM
Dame in cloche with pistol. Dame in cloche with knife.


I know you have "exotic" tastes when it comes to women and their clothing, but why is she wearing one of those plastic things you grow your vegetables under? 


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: ianrs54 on 21 August 2018, 12:05:12 PM
Its Nobby, explains it all !!


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Shedman on 21 August 2018, 12:30:21 PM
It would be interesting to see how many votes there were for each of the Requested ranges

Personally none of them appeal to me  except maybe the Japanese from the Boxer Rebellion

I'd like to see a generic range of greatcoated troops with different headdress eg shako, forage cap,  Carlist beret and without backpacks


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 21 August 2018, 12:38:42 PM
I know you have "exotic" tastes when it comes to women and their clothing, but why is she wearing one of those plastic things you grow your vegetables under? 
Da doll went to a speak easy.  Now she's cabbaged, but she's still a swell tomato.  (Pronouced "tom-ate-toe".)


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Leon on 21 August 2018, 12:51:02 PM
It's hard to put a precise number to it but it's probably something around 15%-20% of each sale going towards recouping the sculpting/moulding costs.  Then once a new range has paid for itself that money becomes 'profit', which is essentially our wages.  30 figures for a Gangster range would mean 1000 in sculpting/moulding costs so you'd need to be selling 5000-7000 of them to recoup the outlay, which is a lot of figures!  You can adjust that target by increasing the retail price of the figures, but even charging double the usual price we'd still need 2500-3500 to make them viable.

At our scale the profit margins are so low that really everything we produce is a long-term investment that adds to the overall viability of the business.  The ranges that have been in production for a while keep the sales coming in and allow us to put money back into producing new ranges.  Those new ranges tick over and slowly pay for themselves and then become part of the profitable side.  Some ranges will pay for themselves quicker than others, which is why we use things like the Requests lists to identify which ranges will be more likely to reach profit sooner.

We've chatted previously about the Napoleonic ranges and having a customer willing to buy 1000's at a time.  We know that we can put 1000 of sculpting/moulding into those ranges and we're going to recoup a large chunk of it almost immediately, so it's less of a risk to get them produced.  The other side of that coin is something like the recent Korean War ranges which were around 6000 of investment and were produced based on their position at the top of the Request lists.  Using the estimates above we're going to need over 30,000 of sales on those ranges before they become profitable but we weighed it up and thought the level of interest justified the risk.  Time will tell whether we're right on that!

The Kickstarter method is something we'll be looking at for a project in the near-future, like we did with the Mongol range, done through the Forum here rather then KS itself.  We should have some info on that towards the end of September.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Orcs on 21 August 2018, 07:52:42 PM
WoW!  That's around a 1000 packs. An awful lot ,  especially if people are buying for skirmish games

I would certainly be very interested in a "Pendraken Kickstarter" for Biblical ranges.  Preferably before I buy any more in 15mm. 


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: paulr on 21 August 2018, 08:27:48 PM
Thanks Leon, an interesting and valuable insight into the realities of the business side :-\
Makes me appreciate the range of figures even more :)


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: parkerm17 on 22 August 2018, 11:45:57 AM
Having avoided Napoleonic Wargaming for about 50 years (loathing the Corsican tyrant for a start) I have decided on the Peninsular War as a "bucket list" project, I would like to know if Pendraken is likely to fill this glaring hole in their ranges in the near future or should I look elsewhere?


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Leon on 23 August 2018, 03:36:01 PM
I would like to know if Pendraken is likely to fill this glaring hole in their ranges in the near future or should I look elsewhere?

It's something we've been asked about repeatedly but we've got to finish off the 1809 and 1815 areas that we've already started.  We're getting close on those now, but anything for the Peninsular would be mid-late 2019 at the earliest.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Sunray on 23 August 2018, 05:48:05 PM
It's hard to put a precise number to it but it's probably something around 15%-20% of each sale going towards recouping the sculpting/moulding costs.  Then once a new range has paid for itself that money becomes 'profit', which is essentially our wages.  30 figures for a Gangster range would mean 1000 in sculpting/moulding costs so you'd need to be selling 5000-7000 of them to recoup the outlay, which is a lot of figures!  You can adjust that target by increasing the retail price of the figures, but even charging double the usual price we'd still need 2500-3500 to make them viable.

At our scale the profit margins are so low that really everything we produce is a long-term investment that adds to the overall viability of the business.  The ranges that have been in production for a while keep the sales coming in and allow us to put money back into producing new ranges.  Those new ranges tick over and slowly pay for themselves and then become part of the profitable side.  Some ranges will pay for themselves quicker than others, which is why we use things like the Requests lists to identify which ranges will be more likely to reach profit sooner.

We've chatted previously about the Napoleonic ranges and having a customer willing to buy 1000's at a time.  We know that we can put 1000 of sculpting/moulding into those ranges and we're going to recoup a large chunk of it almost immediately, so it's less of a risk to get them produced.  The other side of that coin is something like the recent Korean War ranges which were around 6000 of investment and were produced based on their position at the top of the Request lists.  Using the estimates above we're going to need over 30,000 of sales on those ranges before they become profitable but we weighed it up and thought the level of interest justified the risk.  Time will tell whether we're right on that!

The Kickstarter method is something we'll be looking at for a project in the near-future, like we did with the Mongol range, done through the Forum here rather then KS itself.  We should have some info on that towards the end of September.

Thanks Leon for your honesty and transparency.    Its a sobering reality check on odd ball requests.  The Korean war is not a popular game topic compared with WW2, ACW or SYW.  However, I do believe that there is appeal and market in the wide range of proxy applications that these 1950s figures generate.    I get the sense of interest in the USA, but such sales are hit with a very rich postage.   And US stockists will want a margin.

From the forum members' point of view, perhaps the best advertisement for sales is to buy, paint, base and post on forum.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: fsn on 23 August 2018, 05:58:24 PM
Thanks Leon for your honesty and transparency.    Its a sobering reality check on odd ball requests.  The Korean war is not a popular game topic compared with WW2, ACW or SYW.  However, I do believe that there is appeal and market in the wide range of proxy applications that these 1950s figures generate.    I get the sense of interest in the USA, but such sales are hit with a very rich postage.   And US stockists will want a margin.
Hear, hear!

From the forum members' point of view, perhaps the best advertisement for sales is to buy, paint, base and post on forum.
I'll exclude myself from that, shall I?


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: paulr on 23 August 2018, 08:30:51 PM
Seconded

 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Leman on 24 August 2018, 09:07:52 AM
Once the weather improves for varnishing, Paul.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Steve J on 24 August 2018, 10:42:54 AM
Very interesting break down of what it costs to being out a range of figures. Thanks for sharing this Leon.


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Techno on 24 August 2018, 11:08:27 AM
Very interesting break down of what it costs to being out a range of figures.

You wouldn't believe it.  X_X

This reminds me of the time before I worked for the Evil Empire......White Dwarf, came out every month....."By magic".
It was only once I'd started working there, that I realised how much work...and how many people were involved in producing the magazine.

It's not just the 'toy soldier' industry where folk don't realise what's involved in keeping things 'ticking over'...It's just about everything.

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: 2018 Top 10 Requests!
Post by: Ithoriel on 24 August 2018, 12:04:09 PM
When I was involved in the initial computerisation project for the local public library system the local council's in-house IT department decided there was no need to use a commercial product as they could "knock something up" fairly quickly. After all, libraries, how hard could it be?

Two hour meeting was scheduled for me to brief a project manager on requirements.

Many, many meetings and several increases in projected timescales and costs later we went with a commercial package.

Apparently library systems weren't quite as like selling tins of beans as IT had assumed :)