Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Non-Pendraken Stuff => Topic started by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 11:46:56 AM

Title: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 11:46:56 AM
I have had a Peter Pig BEF army for quite some time, but inspired by reading some good books on the opening of WWI, plus some successful experimentation with Vallejo green brown and green ochre, as well as being impressed with the new 1914 rules, I decided to put brush to metal. Unusually, but I think quite successfully, I based the figures and textured the bases before painting. Someone mentioned that they complete an army before painting the bases so that everything matches, and this seems like a very good idea to me (and helps prevent half finished armies - a crime of which I am guilty). Base sizes given are 25mm x 25mm for machine guns, 50mm x 25mm for cavalry and infantry, 50mm x 50mm for artillery.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/964/40338983850_06ae89063c_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/967/28273335818_7c25cc7d62_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Malbork on 16 May 2018, 12:32:05 PM
Very nice.

What colour(s) did you use for the MG? Like the effect.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 16 May 2018, 12:37:54 PM
Very nice.
The HMG should have a green sleeve...
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 12:54:09 PM
It's not a Vickers. Some of the units sent out in August 1914 still had the older style maxim with the brass cooler. Colours for the machine gun are:

Stand - Vallejo gunmetal
Ammo belt - Vallejo beige
Water can - mix of Vallejo military green and olive green
Hose - Vallejo black grey
Cooling sleeve - GW Gehenna's gold then topped with Vallejo gold

Machine gun based on the painting in Osprey Campaign Mons 1914 showing Pvt. Sidney Godley VC holding off the Germans at the Nimy bridge.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 16 May 2018, 02:10:11 PM
Very cool looking guys.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: toxicpixie on 16 May 2018, 02:19:55 PM
Superb work!

They look storming.

Interesting on the MMG (or is it just "MG or HMG at this point?!), didn't know they still had Maxims in service in 1914!
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 16 May 2018, 02:50:55 PM
I sit corrected
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Redstef on 16 May 2018, 03:39:26 PM
good stuff
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 16 May 2018, 04:29:17 PM
Great work, Andy !

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 04:32:39 PM
Thanks chaps; I'm really rather pleased with the way they have turned out so far. Next I'll do another battalion, but with some head swaps for variety, then on to some cavalry, as I plan to have a go at Nery using the 1914 rules.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: fred. on 16 May 2018, 05:23:43 PM
They have come out well.  But then they are a very good subject matter!

I'm waiting for delivery of 1914 rules - I was hoping to be able to use my 30x30mm based troops.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Terry37 on 16 May 2018, 05:53:17 PM
Very impressive work! I like Peter Pig figures and use them a lot in my Weird World War armies because I can usually find everything I need form them. They are also well detailed and paint up nicely. Hope to see more in this effort!

Terry
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: fred. on 16 May 2018, 05:23:43 PM
They have come out well.  But then they are a very good subject matter!

I'm waiting for delivery of 1914 rules - I was hoping to be able to use my 30x30mm based troops.
Having read the rules I can see no reason why 30x30 wouldn't work. There is some explanation in the rules about so many this to that in measurement, but it simply boils down to one mm = one metre, so that it looks right with 12mm figures, so I guess 10mm on 30mm frontage would be fine, or 15mm on a square 30mm base. I just went with their suggestion because I was starting from scratch, and to be honest, their 12mm figures are at the top end of 12mm. I also have my 8" squares cloth, so even on bigger bases I can still use them for Square Bashing.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 16 May 2018, 09:20:42 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd

Nery is an interesting action, we did it a while ago with ITLSU
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Norm on 16 May 2018, 09:25:21 PM
They look rather nice sculpts.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: fred. on 16 May 2018, 10:04:37 PM
Quote from: Leman on 16 May 2018, 08:09:54 PM
Having read the rules I can see no reason why 30x30 wouldn't work. There is some explanation in the rules about so many this to that in measurement, but it simply boils down to one mm = one metre, so that it looks right with 12mm figures, so I guess 10mm on 30mm frontage would be fine, or 15mm on a square 30mm base. I just went with their suggestion because I was starting from scratch, and to be honest, their 12mm figures are at the top end of 12mm. I also have my 8" squares cloth, so even on bigger bases I can still use them for Square Bashing.

Thats good news. I'd thought the photos on their website looked like square based figures, but perhaps I hadn't looked too closely. It does seem to be a game with very little information about it.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 16 May 2018, 10:19:56 PM
I'll start a thread on it on the rules board.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Womble67 on 16 May 2018, 10:42:53 PM
Very nice indeed

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 25 May 2018, 05:55:56 PM
I tried a slightly different style with the second battalion, giving the flesh a GW Reikland flesh wash and the rest of the figure a ......... Sepia wash, which seemed to produce a richer tone than Agrax Earthshade (which I tried on one casualty figure). I still used Vallejo satin varnish and then magic was to finish off:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/877/41623895594_e6150da0af_z.jpg)

I have also done one stand of Germans, again using GW washes (or shades as they call them). I finally settled on Vallejo Light Grey as the basic uniform colour. When completed the face and hands got the flesh wash again, the buff helmet covers the sepia wash and then the rest of the figure Nuln Oil. All in all not too bad, but when I come to doing more Germans I think I will use the burnt umber undercoat rather than black. The figures were again finished with satin varnish followed by brown Magic Wash.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1734/41623893624_7912d933b9_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 25 May 2018, 06:29:43 PM
Looking good, that man !  :)

Cheers - phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Womble67 on 26 May 2018, 09:29:01 AM
Very nice indeed

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 26 May 2018, 02:52:28 PM
Stylish.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Terry37 on 26 May 2018, 06:00:43 PM
Looking very nice indeed - very well done!!!

Terry
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 26 May 2018, 07:26:50 PM
Still not 100% happy with them. I think I will go back to the original method I devised for the BEF. Also, I still think the Germans are a little dark and may well lighten the grey further before doing the shade. If that doesn't work I will seriously have to consider commas of light grey as a highlight over the Nuln Oil. On the other hand, I do like the flesh wash and I think the Sepia will work well with brown horses. Next up a British lancer regiment mounted and dismounted with horseholder, mounted and dismounted machine gun and casualty figure to group the 1914 morale markers round.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Malbork on 30 May 2018, 01:10:04 PM
Been on Holiday, so belated thanks for the painting details for the (H)(M) MG  ;)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 17 June 2018, 12:51:25 PM
Bit slow off the mark here as I have already produced the first cavalry unit, mounted and dismounted by Peter Pig with mounted HMG and horseholder by TSS. Also first artillery battery (18pdrs - again by PP). will try and get those photoed and posted later.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1755/42603353122_db75c568af_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1726/42603351672_23710ca220_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1725/42653352801_dcc720cbe2_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1732/42653351341_94b1a2280c_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1732/42653350481_6ccc9ccce1_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1729/42653349431_873f7b3ca2_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1742/42653348261_cff7754692_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 17 June 2018, 01:06:19 PM
Those are rather good Leman.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 17 June 2018, 01:43:51 PM
Lovely stuff, Andy.

Most impressed !

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: d_Guy on 17 June 2018, 02:38:58 PM
Like the looks of 'em, Leman. Love the lancers, makes me want to read Forester's "The General" again.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Steve J on 17 June 2018, 04:08:51 PM
Very nice work and I love the bamboo look to the lances 8)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 17 June 2018, 04:26:14 PM
TBH Steve I was a bit unsure about the bamboo. The illustration in Osprey's Mons certainly shows them as bamboo, but a rather old ex-library book I have on British cavalry plumps for ash. Having reasonably successfully done the Belgian lancers as bamboo I thought I would stick with it. At the moment I know that German lances and Russian lances were painted black and that the Austrians didn't carry them any longer. The French, however, I still have to seek out.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 17 June 2018, 08:32:18 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 17 June 2018, 08:45:27 PM
It's nearly 20 years since I did mine, but I'm pretty sure British lances were bamboo...
French lances by 1916 were plain wood, before that, no clue!
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 19 June 2018, 10:36:49 AM
Thanks for that Will. I will go for the plain wood for French. I do know that in the FPW the French lances were painted black and the lance pennons were not carried in combat. Pendraken have got that spot-on, unlike some manufacturers. Since I posted I've checked out the Catton-Woodville painting of the charge of the 9th Lancers at Audregnies and again the lances are bamboo, so looks like I made the right decision.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: FierceKitty on 19 June 2018, 11:39:45 AM
A vignette showing a dozen lions following a donkey into action would be fun. ;)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 19 June 2018, 06:26:47 PM
And we all know Clarke admitted to making that up. The whole Lions and Donkeys thing is very much a product of post-WWI intellectualism written by the kind of people who previously did not go to war, the 1960s with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight and the fact that the generals of all sides were trying to make decisions about a conflict of which they had no prior experience - just one of the many problems caused by rapid technological progress.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: fsn on 19 June 2018, 06:44:35 PM
1916: You have a largely conscript army, artillery short of shells, no tanks, and an air force largely ineffective at ground attack, no tactical radio.

You face a line of entrenchments from coast to Switzerland, so no flanks.

What do you do?
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 19 June 2018, 07:00:19 PM
But the real reason I came on this thread was to post some photos of my first pieces of artillery. These two 18pdrs represent a battery in the 1914 rules and are intended (as in actual fact) to fire over open sights.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1824/42855128422_29aa58ec7d_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1802/42903195461_859260886e_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1784/42002764585_de17e82b69_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 19 June 2018, 07:01:30 PM
Love those guns!
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 19 June 2018, 08:31:38 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd =D>
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: fred. on 19 June 2018, 09:53:23 PM
Those guns look good.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: T13A on 19 June 2018, 10:13:49 PM
Lovely looking guns. Can one of the gunners be my grand father, bombardier William Sherman Clapham RHA, enlisted before the war, was at Mons and went right through to November 1918. (see picture to the left)

Cheers Paul
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 19 June 2018, 10:19:56 PM
Not yet, Paul. These are 18pdrs from the field artillery. However I do have 13pdrs for the RHA on order from TSS, so I will be happy to include him in the crew. Their first outing will probably be as L Battery at Nery. Incidentally, that gunner in shirtsleeves is a TSS figure; everything else is Peter Pig.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 19 June 2018, 11:07:03 PM
Quote from: Leman on 19 June 2018, 10:19:56 PM
Their first outing will probably be as L Battery at Nery.

That's not a very nice way to treat any one's Grandfather
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 20 June 2018, 06:05:51 AM
Lovely stuff, Andy.

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 20 June 2018, 08:16:36 AM
You are right there Paul. L Battery did take a bit of a clobbering at Nery, but also put up one heck of a fight. It is also the sort of limited action that suits the 1914 rules.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 June 2018, 09:09:07 AM
Quote from: fsn on 19 June 2018, 06:44:35 PM
1916: You have a largely conscript army, artillery short of shells, no tanks, and an air force largely ineffective at ground attack, no tactical radio.

You face a line of entrenchments from coast to Switzerland, so no flanks.

What do you do?

This subject comes up frequently. I was pulling a few legs!

Still, as Monty responded to this question, Cambrai.


Come to think of it, I must throw in an interesting personal experience. I once showed my first wife (less martially-minded than the current one) a 1:3000 model of Dreadnaught, and asked her if she could spot a design flaw. She looked for about thirty seconds, then remarked "The lookout's behind the funnel; he'll be blinded by the smoke, if not roasted". Before the RN had gone to the unimaginable expense of building a capital ship like that, they might have done well to show a few design specs to their wives for second opinions. A bit like Moliere's cook....

In other words,  I think the hindsight charge is made too readily. If you're in charge of millions of lives, you dam' well cultivate foresight and imagination, or resign and make way for those who will.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 June 2018, 09:19:23 AM
Ignore.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 June 2018, 09:41:07 AM
We usually do...  :P
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 June 2018, 09:45:19 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 20 June 2018, 09:41:07 AM
We usually do...  :P

Your rank protects you, sir.

For the moment.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Womble67 on 20 June 2018, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: Leman on 19 June 2018, 07:00:19 PM
But the real reason I came on this thread was to post some photos of my first pieces of artillery. These two 18pdrs represent a battery in the 1914 rules and are intended (as in actual fact) to fire over open sights.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1824/42855128422_29aa58ec7d_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1802/42903195461_859260886e_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1784/42002764585_de17e82b69_z.jpg)

Very nice indeed

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 20 June 2018, 11:44:37 AM
Thanks folks, it's nice to know they will look fine in an actual game.

Talking of generals moving over in WWI, it is seldom remarked that 58 British general officers lost their lives on the battlefield. In the build up to the Somme, as one example, various assumptions were made at the planning level based on faulty information. It did look possible to break through the German lines before the troops were actually sent in. Only later did it become apparent that the artillery, for one reason or another, had not sufficiently cleared the way, e.g. there are still hundreds of thousands of unexploded shells on the Somme battlefield.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 07 July 2018, 07:41:48 PM
The final battalion for my initial 1914 scenario - the Highlanders. After a bit of book and internet research I decided to go for the front apron only look, leaving the rear of the kilt exposed. As I don't have the steadiest hands in the world I went for an impression of Gordon tartan, but left out the very thin yellow lines in the green and blue kilt. I also accidentally left out the red bobble on the Glengarry, but have rectified this since taking the photos. To illustrate, a front and rear shot of the command stand. Unfortunately I didn't have a piper model.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1790/41451476190_e4555f12dc_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1804/42542462944_282021e54a_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 07 July 2018, 09:07:44 PM
Rather nice
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 08 July 2018, 01:39:22 AM
 :-bd =D> :-bd
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 08 July 2018, 06:35:49 AM
Looking good !!

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Womble67 on 08 July 2018, 12:13:27 PM
Very nice indeed

Take care

Andy
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 09 July 2018, 08:38:10 AM
Last two shots before the basing of the whole force. Boxed this command base off in two days. Took a number of shots but I think these two are the best, the first because it shows up the red cap bands clearly, and the second because it is a relatively clear shot of the whole base.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/921/29423699418_c42c340bb7_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/833/29423698828_25f762b54a_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Steve J on 09 July 2018, 01:36:08 PM
Very nice 8)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 09 July 2018, 02:41:37 PM
I really love the command base.  Nice!
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 09 July 2018, 09:34:39 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd

Should the periscope binoculars be pointing the other way :-\
Everyone seems to be looking towards us but the periscope binoculars appear to be looking away :-/

I hope it isn't to hard to swap it round now
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 09 July 2018, 10:47:07 PM
Depends which way the port was passed
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 10 July 2018, 07:14:15 AM
 X_X

Go and get your coat, Will.  ;)

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 10 July 2018, 07:19:43 AM
Absolutely no idea about periscope binoculars. There are no lenses in the handle things on the other side so they can stay the way they are. Anyone asks I'll just tell them Pvt Baldrick set it up.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 10 July 2018, 09:44:53 AM
Good answer :) ;D
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: d_Guy on 10 July 2018, 02:36:08 PM
Very much like the officer stand as well, great staging. As to the periscope thinkee, I thought the group was lookin behind their position, a GS Officer was explaining the layout..."and then next to the horse line is the officer's latrine. Brilliantly positioned, if I may say so sir."
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 10 July 2018, 04:47:17 PM
Well thanks for all the encouragement chaps. I have now repositioned the periscope the other way round and at a slightly jaunty angle, as you will see when i post pictures of the fully completed force.
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Leman on 20 July 2018, 06:15:23 PM
The completed force, minus the Scottish machine gun which is still being painted. Now it is on to the German opposition.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/935/41722794140_d37a310e08_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1785/41722792410_9034114d55_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/919/43483704662_04c00944dd_z.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/841/43483708692_ba065b9e82_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1769/43483707472_cced10153a_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1809/43531133201_78de1eb4c1_z.jpg)
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: pierre the shy on 20 July 2018, 09:29:08 PM
Those look superb Leman  :-bd
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: paulr on 20 July 2018, 11:01:54 PM
 :-bd =D> :-bd
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 20 July 2018, 11:21:51 PM
Looks great
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: lowlylowlycook on 31 July 2018, 12:49:08 AM
That's an amazing looking army.  Nice!
Title: Re: 15mm BEF
Post by: Techno on 31 July 2018, 07:09:16 AM
Lovely stuff, Andy !!  :-bd

Cheers - Phil