8-part series starts 17th February. £2million quid an episode apparently. As it's all entirely fiction, shouldn't cause a stir among the hobby fraternity =O
Cool, something to look forward to, as well as compare to the film.
Troy: An Everyday Story Of Everyday Fighting Folk
Priam Archer discovers his barn is infested with Myrmidons and Jason and Oedipus Grundii offer to deal with them for a very reasonable fee ... WCGW?
Helen Archer elopes to Paris with her lover and her husband races to Dover to cross the wine dark Channel in pursuit.
Rhadamanthus Tichener returns from The Underworld to raise an army .. and the show's ratings.
As you can see, after "Atlantis" and "Merlin", I have high hopes for this series :D
Isn't "troy" something Black Country folks carry their tea-mugs on?
... and "Priam" something Cockneys transport their babies in?
£2M per episode to tell the story of economic hard times in a small city in up-state New York seems lavish indeed.
Quote from: d_Guy on 12 February 2018, 04:06:12 PM
£2M per episode to tell the story of economic hard times in a small city in up-state New York seems lavish indeed.
Whereas for a series setting out the merits of an alternative system to the ubiquitous avoirdupois it seems eminently reasonable!
Will it be done in the style of the earlier BBC2 series Rome (i.e. lots of swearing, nudity, sex & violence)? Or is it going to be more 'family-friendly', more like the style of, say, The Last Kingdom?
Will it erase the memory of that fairly ropey Brad Pitt/Eric Bana movie?
Edit: Just seen the schedule, 9:10 on Friday Saturday evening, BBC1 - this I find very surprising. It has BBC2 written all over it.
Quote from: Raider4 on 12 February 2018, 04:53:33 PM
Will it be done in the style of the earlier BBC2 series Rome (i.e. lots of swearing, nudity, sex & violence)? Or is it going to be more 'family-friendly', more like the style of, say, The Last Kingdom?
I'm hoping for the former but expecting the latter, to be honest. I thought Rome was brilliant and Last Kingdom as dull as ditchwater.
As to the film, it owed more to Jackson's LotR trilogy than to Homer's epics so I'm assuming that the BBC's latest offering will, at least, be no worse!
Quote from: mollinary on 12 February 2018, 04:42:35 PM
Whereas for a series setting out the merits of an alternative system to the ubiquitous avoirdupois it seems eminently reasonable!
More than an ounce of truth here!
In looking at the trailers for BBC' s Troy I found one for "The Terror" (Dan Simmon's novel about the Franklin Expidetion) coming up on AMC
(Ridley Scott). Ships, Uniforms, etc. look very well done.
I'm a fan of Homer (both of them) and thought Brad Pitt's Achilles was better than Lt. Chard's Achilles (in Helen of Troy). It's interesting that both movies put the Greeks in red and the Trojans in blue (more or less). I'm a told this was done so that we Americans could tell who was on which side. I think it's more like our theory in 10mm that "bright colors work better".
I'll likely watch the BBC version (but didn't see any reds and blues). Incidently the actor who played Julius Caesar in HBO Rome is apparently playing Franklin in The Terror (but I could be wrong).
I do hope the Beeb will put the heroes in appropriate armour.
(https://koryvantesstudies.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/8338227429_791a8dd3a2_o.jpg?w=678&h=1024)
David Gyasi playing Achilles :-
Who know Achilles was black? Homer didn't mention that in the Illiad, at least not in the translation I read. Typical BBC, sacrificing all at the altar of diversity and historical revisionism.
Quote from: fsn on 13 February 2018, 08:34:27 PM
I do hope the Beeb will put the heroes in appropriate armour.
Looks very much like my neighbor last summer when he went forth to contend with a large hornet's nest.
Quote from: Bren on 13 February 2018, 09:02:52 PM
David Gyasi playing Achilles :-
Who know Achilles was black? Homer didn't mention that in the Illiad, at least not in the translation I read. Typical BBC, sacrificing all at the altar of diversity and historical revisionism.
This is a Saturday night entertainment show based on a 3,000 year old myth. Where does 'historical' revisionism come into it? How is using a black actor to portray Achilles 'sacrificing all'? Was 'all sacrificed' when Laurence Olivier played the Mahdi in Khartoum? Perhaps it would be OK if this actor 'whited up' to play Achilles? Oh, by the way, Zeus and Aeneas seem to be played by black actors as well! If you don't like it, don't watch it.
Quote from: Bren on 13 February 2018, 09:02:52 PM
Who know Achilles was black? Homer didn't mention that in the Illiad, at least not in the translation I read.
It's been years since I tried to read the thing - only got about half-way through - but I don't remember Homer mentioning that he was white either. Or any other colour.
Hi
Well why dont we put green make up on every actor from now on just to even the field a bit. That'll keep everyone happy. Problem solved. I should work for the UN.
Jim
Quote from: fsn on 13 February 2018, 08:34:27 PM
I do hope the Beeb will put the heroes in appropriate armour.
Me too.
Dendra plate armour isn't it though. The Dendra panoply is generally considered to belong to 15th century BCE while the Trojan war is generally placed in the 13th. To be fair, it is sometimes suggested that Achilles wore something akin to the Dendra set, hence his reputation for being invulnerable except at the back of the lower leg (not covered by Dendra style armour and greaves).
By the Trojan War we're probably looking at something more like this
(https://thelosttreasurechest.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/mycenaeaninfantryc1250-1200bc.jpg)
For those who haven't seen the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTBOi1PAMmw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTBOi1PAMmw)
Quote from: Jim Ando on 13 February 2018, 09:58:48 PM
Well why dont we put green make up on every actor from now on just to even the field a bit.
Was the 'real' Achilles black? Almost certainly not, and some people seem to get very upset about a black actor portraying him. 'Political correctness gone mad' and all that bollocks.
Was the 'real' Achilles blond-haired & blue-eyed (Brad Pitt)? Almost certainly not again, but no one bats an eyelid.
Can't see the difference myself.
Quote from: Raider4 on 13 February 2018, 10:28:56 PM
Was the 'real' Achilles black? Almost certainly not, and some people seem to get very upset about a black actor portraying him. 'Political correctness gone mad' and all that bollocks.
Was the 'real' Achilles blond-haired & blue-eyed (Brad Pitt)? Almost certainly not again, but no one bats an eyelid.
Can't see the difference myself.
What he said!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 13 February 2018, 10:06:48 PM
Dendra plate armour isn't it though.
I know, but I want to see actors trying to be all Brad Pit whilst dressed like a dustbin. More like those inflatable Sumo suits. :D
The Dendra is supposed to have been quite good for riding in a chariot though.
I've seen two reenactors in full Dendra style armour dueling and they moved pretty freely. Unsurprisingly, they said it was important to have the armour made exactly for you. No pret a porter Dendra, I guess. :)
They reckoned the main problem was that you couldn't throw a javelin or use a bow while wearing it.
Not, to be fair, something one necessarily expects to see looming out of the haar on a damp, chilly Sunday morning in Edinburgh but there were regular groups of Dark Age, Medieval and Fantasy re-enactors* on the Links in good weather.
Two slightly soggy but surprisingly cheerful young ladies were acting as umpires and squires.
*I realise "re-enactor" is something of a misnomer in relation to Fantasy but you know what I mean :)
I note that that bloody BCE crap is creeping in instead of AD. What a load of politically correct rhubarb. What about respecting our own culture. Far more important than what degree of brown Achilles was.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 14 February 2018, 12:27:49 PM
I've seen two reenactors in full Dendra style armour dueling and they moved pretty freely.
They reckoned the main problem was that you couldn't throw a javelin or use a bow while wearing it.
Now that's interesting. I always assumed that Dendra was build for a chariot warrior - pretty impervious, but once off the chariot couldn't move very well. Also surprised that the javelin was unusable. I would have thought that was pretty much a pre-requisite.
Ithoriel, you have proved the utility of the forum as an educational tool. Thank you.
Whats BCE stand for. Obviously a new version that doesnt upset some imaginary part of the population that probably couldnt give a s**t anyway.
Jim
Before the Common Era.
The Common Era starting, coincidentally, in the same year Jesus was supposed to have been born.
After JC's birth, we have Common Era (CE)
So, it's a bit like GMT, which we MUST. NOT. USE. anymore.
Instead use UTC, which just happens to be exactly the same . . .
The common era. What the hell does that mean. Who thought thay one up.
Again a new one on me, and again a kick in the teeth for British culture, historical and scientific. It's not called GREENWICH mean time for nothing. Next you'll be telling me the Americans captured and deciphered the enigma code in WWII ( sorry, the second war of Europe's eternal shame, because the rest of the world is such a tolerant and peace loving place).
Anyway...
Back on topic...
Dendra Armour...
(https://i.imgur.com/1OWkieD.jpg)
Back on topic?
The subject of the OP was the BBC's upcoming programme surely :P :d
The last page or so of this topic is a good example of why I don't contribute to the forum very much, if at all.
My whole point about blokes flaling about in Dendra armour like something in "It's a Knockout" has been scuppered by Ithoriel's insistance on bringing facts to the matter. :(
I don't think I'll be watching. Although I enjoyed "The Musketeers", "Merlin" was aimed at children and "Atlantis" was just silly. I suspect there will be lots of CGI, lots of heaving busoms, and lots of dialogue we could probably write greats wads of here*. From the clip it seems that tactics consist entirely of the charge and all formations dissolve into single combats - a la "Batley Townwomen's Guild presnets the Battle of Pearl Harbour".
Not only that, but we all know how it will end.
* Dialoghue bingo for those who'd like to play.
"Coward. Stay and hide behind the skirts of your Spartan whore."
"It is the will of Gods that I go."
"No, you can't borrow my armour, Patrocolus."
"Mighty Zeus, I beseech thee."
"You may be a soldeir of Troy, but you are also a husband."
"Not another cunning plan, Ulysses!"
"Oh, what cruels fate awaits me -only the Gods know".
"Ajax, you're on kitchen cleaning duty - yes, both of you."
"May Hera guide my spear" - (pick any diety and weapon combo)
"Oooh! A big horsey!"
Looks like it might be an interesting show, given the screening time I suspect it's more likely to be like Rome than Merlin I also suspect it's the BBC seeing if they can compete with Game of Thrones for the adult fantasy sex and violence audience. The short clips of battle look suitably confusing and dust choked.
On a more gamey note, one of my favourite Warmaster Ancients armies is the Heroic Greeks, lots of simple foot with a nice mix of light chariots. It can also include a sub general beafed up to 'Heroic' status, basically getting a couple of extra attack dice, mine either fights like Brad Pit (hooray) or Orlando Bloom (booooo), which makes like interesting.
Not having seen a clip as yet (I mostly watch streamed programmes, including player, and yes I do have a licence) I would haver thought that the enormous shields used at that time would have made linear tactics a must. Unless of course Auntie decided great big shields were too expensive.
The guys I saw looked more like this than like fsn's "man-in-a-dustbin."
(https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/dendra-reconstruction-jpg.1798/)
Quote from: Leman on 15 February 2018, 10:12:57 AM
Not having seen a clip as yet (I mostly watch streamed programmes, including player, and yes I do have a licence) I would haver thought that the enormous shields used at that time would have made linear tactics a must. Unless of course Auntie decided great big shields were too expensive.
By the time of the Trojan War tower shields hade been replaced by smaller shields, armour was less encumbering and spears shorter.
(https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p/750x750/3374.jpg?v=1485681003)
I'm expecting the Beeb to have troops in something like the "Musketeers"/ "Vikings" style fantasy leather armour rather than anything Late Bronze Age but if it doesn't play too fast and loose with the Homeric epics I'll no doubt watch it.
Heck, I watched Spartacus and enjoyed it ... so clearly I have no aesthetic taste whatsoever :D
I still think the Wooden Horse was a conventional, Late Bronze Age, Middle Eastern siege tower with ram and boarding ramp. Having it dragged towards the walls by enemy Trojan prisoners would explain the idea that the Trojans brought it into their own city. By the time the story gets back to Greece, where people have probably never seen such a thing it is completely garbled and "hey presto" the modern myth is born.
I still want to see myth depicted in "Troy."
Do you think they will do all 10 years in one series, or just the juicy bits?
I'm going for
"Hi, I'm Paris, and you're gorgeous. Run away with me!"
"OK".
Ten years later
...
To be fair the first 9 years of the siege seems to have been so boring that Homer didn't much write about them.
Unless there's 9 books out there yet to be found?
Quote from: fsn on 15 February 2018, 12:09:31 PM
I'm going for
"Hi, I'm Paris, and you're gorgeous. Run away with me!"
"OK".
I just met you
And this is crazy
But my name's Paris
Come with me, maybe? :)
;D
Brilliant, Ithorial :D
I await your follow up single "Stab it up" with glee.
Given the miffic nature of Homers writing and the Iliad's status as "fantasy story about something that may or may not have any great accuracy" then any playing about with the story is likely to be just as "accurate" as the original.
It's the Ancient Greek version of "Hornblower" or the Cretinous take on the Arthur Cycle etc etc.
I'm enjoying "Britannia" at the moment, it's quite gloriously silly. No one's run down a chariot pole and speared a legionary yet, but I'm hopeful.
By rights the Troy story should start with the Judgement of Paris.
Or even slightly before when Zeus, in his wisdom, declined to make the judgement and palmed it off on a silly mortal. :)
Quote from: Ithoriel on 15 February 2018, 10:19:33 AM
The guys I saw looked more like this than like fsn's "man-in-a-dustbin."
(https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/attachments/dendra-reconstruction-jpg.1798/)
By the time of the Trojan War tower shields hade been replaced by smaller shields, armour was less encumbering and spears shorter.
(https://www.ancient.eu/img/r/p/750x750/3374.jpg?v=1485681003)
I'm expecting the Beeb to have troops in something like the "Musketeers"/ "Vikings" style fantasy leather armour rather than anything Late Bronze Age but if it doesn't play too fast and loose with the Homeric epics I'll no doubt watch it.
Looks like Auntie's problem is solved with small shields and colanders. My judgement of Paris is that it is a lovely city to visit, but I prefer to go by train rather than plane.
Heck, I watched Spartacus and enjoyed it ... so clearly I have no aesthetic taste whatsoever :D
Well that quote seemed to get a bit garbled, probably like the forthcoming dialogue.
Wise man, that Zeus. It's the sort of question there's no good answer for...
Quote from: fsn on 15 February 2018, 08:00:10 AMFrom the clip it seems that tactics consist entirely of the charge and all formations dissolve into single combats - a la "Batley Townwomen's Guild presnets the Battle of Pearl Harbour".
My main gripe about programmes - and movies - like this.
Vikings - and to some extent
The Last Kingdom - started off trying to show sheildwalls ad other tactics, but pretty quickly resorted to mass, inter-mingled, single combats.
I guess directors think it's more visually exciting.
Quote from: toxicpixie on 15 February 2018, 04:04:36 PM
I'm enjoying "Britannia" at the moment, it's quite gloriously silly.
Not seen this, but have seen the trailers. Definitely looks like a case of 'trying too hard'.
If you're after a serious look at the historical record, you'll be disappointed. If you want some very pretty, scenery chewing, ham and cheese awesomeness it's quite good.
Assume it bears as much actual reality as Game of Thrones does and it's fun ;)
Quote from: Raider4 on 15 February 2018, 05:08:00 PM
mass, inter-mingled, single combats.
"By the Gods! They outnumber us 3 to 1!"
"Odin/Zeus/Osiris/Big Snakey Thing is with us - Charge!"
Cut to a suspicious number of 1:1 combats. Why aren't there groups of three blokes kicking seven shades out of one Odin/Zeus/Osiris/Big Snakey Thing worshipper?
Did you ever see Mike Loades training novices in how to be a shield wall? He got the mechanics off in just a few days. (bout 24:44)
QuoteOr even slightly before when Zeus, in his wisdom, declined to make the judgement and palmed it off on a silly mortal
That would indeed be the perfect start, I can just imaging Sir Gandalf Mckellen, in the role of Zeus, looking through his beard at the three goddesses and thinking "There is absolutely no way I'm going to be make THAT decision!"
Not if he knew what was good for him, since one was his wife.
And when did THAT ever stop Zeus!
Good point.
The other two were possibly his daughters.
My lord, it is the green shield and scarlet griffin of Runcorn!
Quote from: d_Guy on 16 February 2018, 01:03:58 PM
My lord, it is the green shield and scarlet griffin of Runcorn!
That why the Griffin is coughing it's guts up !! :d
Quote from: DanJ on 15 February 2018, 04:08:29 PM
By rights the Troy story should start with the Judgement of Paris.
It just might. Blurb for tonight's programme is "Following a fateful encounter with the gods, the life of young herdsman Paris changes forever."
Quote from: DanJ on 15 February 2018, 04:08:29 PM
By rights the Troy story should start with the Judgement of Paris.
And it pretty much did, but not how it's depicted in most of the paintings . . .
And, there are a
lot of paintings over the years of the judgement of Paris. For some reason it's been a very popular subject.
Well full marks for making it look like pre-classical Greece. However, Helen looked about 10+ years older than Paris and more like a strict school maam than the most beautiful woman in the world. I was interrupted about 45 minutes in, and despite having paused it couldn't be bothered going back to it and switched to an episode of Agents of Shield instead.
One word - STRIUPS
Well know for their use in Ancient Greece, - NOT
IanS
Indeed, even today striups are hardly ever used in horse riding.
Very true, I can hardly remember when I last saw someone using Striups -
perhaps they were a passing fad?
I did find a pair on eBay (and cheap too!)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Horse-striups-for-decoration-/263385614589
Well, that was episode 1, pretty much standard stuff for a multi-part drama; fast forward helped. Now that the Helen stuff is more or less out of the way it might become interesting. Pretty much the same fairytale, at least the gods(esses) are getting a look in.
We watched it this afternoon and enjoyed it. Nothing too taxing but it set the scene. Many years ago I tried reading a translation of the Iliad or something similar, but found it such hard going that I gave up :(
FWIW, I like Robert Fagles's translation. If you get the audio version, Derek Jacobi is the reader and does quite a good job (uses multiple voices) - brings it to life.
I reckon that if I switch off the part of my brain that keeps insisting that "this is supposed to be about the Trojan War" and just watch it as another sub-GoT fantasy I'll probably enjoy the series.
I enjoyed it, although Mrs Orcs fell asleep halfway through. (she needs to have the good guys in white and the bad guys in black). :)
Zeus was black - no problem with that, but Helen his daughter was absolutely Caucasian!!!!!. She should have been at least mixed race. While she was attractive, she was hardly "the most beautiful woman in the world" . Please don't get me wrong ( I wouldn't "kick her out of bed" :d) but I can think of a lot more stunning actresses they could have used.
Use of stirrups was annoying, why go to the lengths they do for building sets and getting things authentic and then make an obvious mistake. Most producers seem to this. Look at the Saxon helmets in Vikings.
Amazed I got the Judgement of Paris bit right :D
QuoteOne word - STRIUPS
May not be the BBC's fault, I think I read somewhere that insurance companies don't like actors on horseback without stirrups as they are more likely to fall off, especially at speed.
I had a major gripe with that fact that they were riding at all, the chariot was the height of sophistication and horses just weren't big enough to take a rider. But the main problem with episode 1 is Paris, he isn't much of a hero, proud, boastful and not anywhere nearly as good as he thinks he is.... They've certainly got the characterisation spot on but it's not a central character I warmed to and want to see succeed.
However apart from the riding bit a good first episode, given that they had a lot of introductions to cram in, definitely be giving the second episode a try.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 19 February 2018, 01:18:19 AM
I reckon that if I switch off the part of my brain that keeps insisting that "this is supposed to be about the Trojan War" and just watch it as another sub-GoT fantasy I'll probably enjoy the series.
A worthy winner :-bd
Have they got the costumes right? Not just armour, but the ladies costumes?
Quote from: fsn on 19 February 2018, 12:27:10 PM
Have they got the costumes right? Not just armour, but the ladies costumes?
Right? .... not even close, fsn, as far as I'm concerned.
We have several images of Mycenaean horsemen from the period so I'm not too fazed by the horsemanship and, as to stirrups, I agree it's probably down to the expense of reshooting chunks of the show if a major player comes a cropper.
As to "the most beautiful woman in the world," get a dozen random forumites together and ask them to name their candidate for the title and you'd probably get a couple of dozen answers. Possible even that number from each :)
Quote from: Orcs on 19 February 2018, 09:34:15 AM
Zeus was black - no problem with that, but Helen his daughter was absolutely Caucasian!!!!!. She should have been at least mixed race.
Well, he could have been a white swan . . .
I really enjoyed it.
We watched the film version with Brad Pitt last night, just for something to watch. Visually impressive but obviously misses loads of stuff out. Also ordered the Robert Fagle translation as recommended by d-Guy :)
I shall stick to my much battered EV Rieu.
I figured you for an Alexander Pope guy. :-\
I do enjoy the film. Release the giant flaming balls of twine!
Saw 1st episode of the Beeb one. Couldn't careless about the actors races. Was let down by pretty stolid and very worthy but dull acting & pacingdirectoon. Shame, as the look of it is very nicely done and the story should crackle and pop. Orlando Bloom might have been as wooden as his bow, but Eric Bananarama could carry the film. Sadly no ones stepped up like that in the series. Ms. Toxic is very unimpressed, but I'll give episode 2 a chance if I I can bag the tv privileges and see if it gets better :D
I do like that they made the stirrups look ropey and rather ad hoc. Suspect someone got narked about having to have them :D
Quote from: d_Guy on 20 February 2018, 07:43:33 PM
I figured you for an Alexander Pope guy. :-
:P Once you've read CS Forrester, there's no going back.
;D
Quote from: Ithoriel on 12 February 2018, 12:00:22 PM
Troy: An Everyday Story Of Everyday Fighting Folk
Priam Archer discovers his barn is infested with Myrmidons and Jason and Oedipus Grundii offer to deal with them for a very reasonable fee ... WCGW?
Helen Archer elopes to Paris with her lover and her husband races to Dover to cross the wine dark Channel in pursuit.
Rhadamanthus Tichener returns from The Underworld to raise an army .. and the show's ratings.
As you can see, after "Atlantis" and "Merlin", I have high hopes for this series :D
Quote from: fsn on 20 February 2018, 09:13:21 PM
:P Once you've read CS Forrester, there's no going back. ;D
True that. I read "The Ship" every five years and, like you, want to wargame the Med in 1940. Same with "The General" and I want to buy a Sedan chair and continue to climb the rank ladder at Pendraken Forum.
Quote from: d_Guy on 18 February 2018, 10:05:47 PM
FWIW, I like Robert Fagles's translation. If you get the audio version, Derek Jacobi is the reader and does quite a good job (uses multiple voices) - brings it to life.
Jacobi could read out a telephone directory and make it sound good!
It's all gone a bit Black Books!
QuoteIt's all gone a bit Black Books!
Now that was the last truly original and funny comedy series on TV! I actually cried laughing when.... actually I robably shouldn't say when, but it did involve Bill Bailey and a piano
Green Wing is also very good - I missed it first time round, but we watched the lot in a couple of weeks recently and it's been very funny!
We may now return to discussing the rather dull Troy ;)
One of my favourite Black Books moments was when the two JWs knocked at the door and were confronted by Bill Bailey in a long white gown.
Quote from: DanJ on 21 February 2018, 09:27:08 AM
Now that was the last truly original and funny comedy series on TV! I actually cried laughing when....
Seconded, cried laughing more than once
If you want a good interpretation of the Trojan War, I suggest Eric Shanower's "Age of Bronze" comic book series. Very good.
Well, I watched the second episode last night. Now, I should say have no problem with the ethnicity of the actors, with the horsetack in use, with the ships, helmets, shields, chariots or military tactics. I have only one problem with this show. How on earth have they made the rip roaring epic of the centuries, stories which have entranced mankind for millennia, the perfect mix of sex, violence, and added deities, into something so incredibly, unbelievably DULL, DULL, DULL. It Is unremittingly BORING. I could not find a single character (and I use that word in a purely technical sense to describe an individual who figures in the show) that I empathised with sufficiently to care whether they lived or died. Having watched over two hours of this, I can now see clearly why Zeus was so determined to have no part in it. Iphigenia's otherwise inexplicable keenness for her father to GET ON WITH IT and put her out of her misery is now crystal clear.
Oh Dear! :( :( :( :(
I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the second one. It's still dull as possible, eh...
Yes it still as dull as possible. We have now been introduced to Achilles, a strong silent type trying hard to look..... hard. His one line (either "we'll be back", or "we'll return", I don't remember which) had none of the charisma or star quality of similar phrase uttered by Schwarzenegger and McArthur, and that is a sentence I never thought I would have a use for!
As the greatest warrior who ever lived, his part in the fighting seemed to involve riding out in a chariot trying - you guessed it- to look hard, and then, an eon later, walking back through the smoke(!) only to turn, absentmindedly, to throw a spear through the back of someone's head and out of his mouth. Having performed his feat, he turns round and wanders off again.
Just watching the second one now.
It's a bit better than the first episode, and the armours aren't the classic cuirass and Corinthian helm.
The fight is still of the charge into one to one fighting.
Can't be doing with Paris.
6/10.
May watch episode 3, but won't be bothered if I don't.
As I'd have to fight the missus for TV Space i really don't think I'm bothered enough to attempt episode 2 :D
Well I'm sure we'll watch it when there's now else on the telly. On the upside I've started reading Fagle's tranlsation of the Iliad, well the introduction at least, and am enjoying it immensely :)
Glad you like Fagles. I was told at some point that he is excellent at bringing the aliterations from the Greek to English, giving some small sense of the sound of the poem in recitation.
Mollinary, I believe you were once a theater critic for the times! :) :-bd
Hmmm, episode 2 very, very slow :(. Even SWMBO said it was dull and slow :o. Will give episode 3 a chance and if still the same, we may simply give up on the series.
QuoteWell I'm sure we'll watch it when there's now else on the telly
iPlayer is your friend in this instance.
Just watched episode two, and not particularly riveting.
Episode One; Very slow.
Episode Two; Not as slow and slightly more interesting.
Episode Three: ???????
I think Episode three will be the deal breaker...or not. I think it'll show where they intend to go with the rest of the series.
Also, is it me or does Troy appear a bit too BIG?
After episode three I'm having huge problems working up enough enthusiasm for episode 4, how have the BBC managed to made it so dull?
Not seen any episodes, Dan, so I can't comment.
It sounds like the sort of prog that I'd have watched.....Thought I'd learned something 'proppa'....and then been terribly disappointed that I'd got most of the history completely wrong. :(
Cheers - Phil.
It's like a bad mash up of "proppa historicals" and " proppa miffic", which has somehow taken all the excitement out and replaced it with, errr, dunno.
Watch "Britannia" instead, Zoe Wannamaker is proper mental, she's taken serious scenery chewing "ham and cheese" acting lessons from the Might Shatner :)
Too many cut scenes away from the action, who cares about the various domestic issues. Some good stuff in it from the cast though, especially Achilles' 'attitude'.
I sing the attitude of Achilles....hmmm, not sure this is ready for reciting, Mr Homer.....
Dull was an understatement Dan! Did let me get on with Sassanid cavalry though.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 March 2018, 05:25:24 PM
I sing the attitude of Achilles....hmmm, not sure this is ready for reciting, Mr Homer.....
In the original Greek I hope.
Quote from: FierceKitty on 07 March 2018, 05:25:24 PM
I sing the attitude of Achilles....hmmm, not sure this is ready for reciting, Mr Homer.....
..obnoxious and entitled attitude that sent many Achaeans to the house of drink... Homer Simpson
Quote from: Steeleye on 28 February 2018, 06:23:01 AM
Episode One; Very slow.
Episode Two; Not as slow and slightly more interesting.
Episode Three: ???????
I think Episode three will be the deal breaker...or not. I think it'll show where they intend to go with the rest of the series.
Also, is it me or does Troy appear a bit too BIG?
Episode Three: Turgid!
Though to be fair, Troy was a big city for the period. Currently estimated at around 10,000 of a population, assuming that Homer's Troy was Troy 6 and/or Troy 7. Puts it on a par with Thebes/ Athens/ Tiryns but only about a third of the size of Mycenae on current best estimates.
Congrats Ithoriel, you're now massively more interesting than the show with that tit bit of info!
QuoteIt's like a bad mash up of "proppa historicals" and " proppa miffic", which has somehow taken all the excitement out and replaced it with, errr, dunno.
I think you've hit the nail on the head; Homer is about great and heroic actions against the mighty backdrop of "high walled Ilium" even Achilles's sulk was mighty and heroic. The BBC series fails to inspire, it's written more in the 'kitchen sink' tradition of British drama than in the Shakespearian tradition of great but flawed and tragic heros.
I could forgive it everything if only it had something, anything, that triggered a spark of interest. To quote Blackadder it moves with the pace "of an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping". For me, if it has a redeeming feature, it is Zeus. He sits there with a look of intense boredom and puzzlement on his face, stunned by the ludicrous actions of gods and mortals that unfold before him. He is Everyman, and I sympathise with him!
"The Oddity" by Ithoriel of Ionia
I tell a tale of heroes bold
It's setting is the days of old
In days when Noah was a boy
Our heroes set a course for Troy
What's the premise for our story?
Was it greed or lust for glory?
Or, is the cause of all this strife
Seduction of another's wife?
It started with the squabbling gods
Three godesses were quite at odds
So mighty Zeus bid Paris grapple
With who should have the golden apple.
Thus Paris, thanks to Aphrodite,
Wound up with Helen (rather flighty),
She was fed up with her old man
So off to Troy the lovers ran.
What follows is a tale of slaughter,
The sacrificing of a daughter,
The endless battles on the plain,
To walls, to ships and back again.
Of love, betrayal and deception
With meddling gods from the inception.
And crowning all, we have ,of course,
The story of the Trojan Horse.
All the excitement there could be
Made deadly dull, Dear BBC!
A story of so many splendours
Now Bronze Age version of Eastenders. :(
Superb =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
love it! ;D
you are a talented fellow!
Excellent, Mike !!
As I haven't been able to bear (bare ?......Help, Kitty) to watch that particular prog for decades and decades now.....I take your comments on board.
Cheers - Phil.
Absolutely brilliant :D
One bit I did quite like was at the start of the battle scene where all the soldiers are rushing to get at each other and the Gods are seen walking through the armies bestowing their blessings on their favourite heroes.
"Bare" is my act. In your current cold spell, it isn't advisable.
Yeaaaah....But what's the right spelling in the context of....."I can't bear/bare do do 'X'." ?
We need to be told.....Otherwise I'm going to 'OIK' you. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil ;)
Quote from: Techno on 08 March 2018, 06:11:18 PM
Yeaaaah....But what's the right spelling in the context of....."I can't bear/bare do do 'X'." ?
We need to be told.....Otherwise I'm going to 'OIK' you. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil ;)
Bear, as in to carry or support a burden , or as a noun, a nasty big hairy creature that is reputed to do unmentionable things in the woods...... or is that the Pope?
Bare, as in to show off, or uncover or, in describing a condition, 'naked'
Grin and bEAr it gets a yEAy!
Grin and bare it and you're put away! :-)
Brilliant Mike
Well, if you ignore all the other episodes, tonight's was bang on (well, apart from the first 15minutes, but you've got to get the Amazons in somewhere)!
We gave up on it after episode 3. Simply awful :(
I had more fun waiting for the topcoat on my latest project to dry.
Yes, Troy, Fall of A City is less interesting than watching paint dry.
If it's taken five hours to get anywhere near interesting I really can't be arsed, sorry :D
On the other hand I've watched a season and a half of Penny Dreadful and that's been fun. Quite silly, but fun. Also it has Eva Green & Helen McCrory in which can't hurt.
I'm confused.. :^o :^o :^o :^o :^o...Are you all saying this series was a pile of poop ? ;)
(Not even bothered to watch a single episode......especially after everyone's less than complimentary comments.) ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Steve J on 25 March 2018, 07:45:31 AM
We gave up on it after episode 3.
Exactly the same here.
Quote from: Steve J on 25 March 2018, 07:45:31 AM
Simply awful :(
I wouldn't go that far, but it was dreadfully dull.
Quote from: toxicpixie on 25 March 2018, 09:33:14 AM
On the other hand I've watched a season and a half of Penny Dreadful and that's been fun. Quite silly, but fun. Also it has Eva Green & Helen McCrory in which can't hurt.
Ah, yes. I've seen only the first series. Quite watchable, but I spent the whole time thinking that this is what the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen should have been, rather than that pretty ropey movie.
Yes, exactly - oddly enough that was very much my first thought!
I like that the plot is (so far) quite personal and didn't jump straight into massive world spanning Big damn heroes.
I have watched episode 1 of Troy, and taped recorded the rest. Is it worth keeping and watching when I gt the time, or should I just free up dik space by deleting it?
Quote from: Orcs on 26 March 2018, 10:42:59 AM
I have watched episode 1 of Troy, and taped recorded the rest. Is it worth keeping and watching when I gt the time, or should I just free up dik space by deleting it?
What did you record them on?! No, no, please don't answer that :D
I have to say I'd ditch them. Apparently halfway thru episode 5 there's a spark of interest but I can't face wading thru the rest to get there...
Quote from: Orcs on 26 March 2018, 10:42:59 AM
or should I just free up dik space by deleting it?
That nice Mr Freud would have made some sort of comment, there. :D
Cheers - Phil
It's just flat and boring, I can't even remember how many I've seen, definitely 1 and 2 and possibly 3, can any one help? The last one I saw was Paris (nee Alexander) and Hector going off somewhere to get some tunnels opened to feed the city. And I think Achilles turned up in Helen's bedroom but I can't remember how or why.
I keep watching, hoping that the story will pick up when they get to the fight between Achilles and Hector. I think they got there on Saturday, but I don't remember, I think I might have fallen asleep. It is so DISAPPOINTING! The whole thing has an air of 'look at us, we are doing serious acting, in a period piece, aren't we great?' And sadly, the answer is 'No' . :( :( :(
Mollinary
Quote from: Techno on 26 March 2018, 12:48:03 PM
That nice Mr Freud would have made some sort of comment, there. :D
Cheers - Phil
=O =O =O =O =O
And normal service was resumed last night, I fell asleep, only to wake up, rewind, fast forward to the fight, still disappointed.
I confess I felt a bit sorry for Achilles - it should have been the writers and director who got an arrow in the neck! What a missed opportunity.
Wasn't going to mention that, in case of spoilers! ;)
Quote from: mad lemmey on 01 April 2018, 12:45:53 PM
Wasn't going to mention that, in case of spoilers! ;)
I think most people will probably be aware that neither Hector nor Achilles gets to live* happily ever after . . .
* Assuming that they are actually following the basic storyline. I stopped watching three weeks ago.
Quote from: Raider4 on 01 April 2018, 02:54:28 PM
I think most people will probably be aware that neither Hector nor Achilles gets to live* happily ever after . . .
* Assuming that they are actually following the basic storyline. I stopped watching three weeks ago.
I was hoping they would all die quickly >:( >:( >:( >:(
Quote from: Dave on 09 April 2018, 12:15:53 PM
I was hoping they would all die quickly >:( >:( >:( >:(
Sorry to be the bearer of more bad news for viewers ........ the siege lasted 10 years. #-o
Well at least Auntie Beeb has made a very commendable job of The City and The City. Then again, it's rather nice to see Liverpool as one of the star players in the cast.
Ah, is it Liverpool? Some of the shots looked like Brum but not quite... yeah City & the City is good, enjoyed the episode and a half I've had the opportunity to catch :)
They had to do a bit of filming in Manchester, land of the bin dippers, but most outdoor locations seem to be Liverpool - St George's Hall, Lime Street Street Station Hotel, Underground car parks, the docks - both derelict and new development (Ul Qoma).
Is it over yet? Can we come out?
Troy is well over. After a promising start I failed to finish watching The City and the City as it just got too depressing.
Incidentally I recently read a very pithy article on how to make one's life a little brighter - stop listening to the Today programme! :d
I see the lass that did the series "The eight (?) days that made Rome", is back with a series about Pompeii....I really enjoyed the 'Rome one'....so I'll be having a gander at this new offering.
Think it starts on Wednesday.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 28 May 2018, 11:22:39 AM
I see the lass that did the series "The eight (?) days that made Rome", is back with a series about Pompeii....I really enjoyed the 'Rome one'....so I'll be having a gander at this new offering.
Think it starts on Wednesday.
Cheers - Phil
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDDudSwdOGPJ1wQ5bpciX9jhnkcfsIAv9OIPdhrKYMTEjyLraM)
Would you like to enlighten us as to Which bit of Bettany Hughes you "really enjoyed" :d
Thanks for the update there are a couple of things that I enjoy watching her programs !
You don't get many of those to the pound...