Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Genre/Period Discussion => Ancients to Renaissance (3000BC - 1680) => Topic started by: Heedless Horseman on 16 July 2017, 01:56:27 AM

Title: North European Bronze age
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 16 July 2017, 01:56:27 AM
If it gets started, I may begin a small project along skirmish lines set in 'Bronze Age' or late Neolithic Northern Europe. Figures are a problem! But,  (as it would be a 'fun' project, and not too 'historical')...will use Barbarians with some Celts and Amazons. Weapons could be cut down to stone axes, clubs or flint spear tips...or filed for more appropriate Bronze age size and shape.  'Arnie' bodies, fur underpants and boots? Well, whatever! Not too much choice in 10mm and but not  a 'serious' project, anyway!  ;)

I have been looking for small, very primitive, ox/pony carts or pack ponies. They must be somewhere on PD!  Mongol civvies have some stuff, but  head gear/clothing is a bit dubious for period...unless I just go for the 'Conan' look, lol! 

Buildings? New round houses or huts look good   :) ...but I am sure that I have seen a scenic piece (from another source  :o ) which had a couple of round huts built into a walled enclosure? Think it was 10mm and described as a 'village'...but cannot now find it in the places where I thought it may have been. Any clues? I rather like the idea of a Crannog settlement...but probable too much effort!   :(  Plenty of sheep/pigs/geese, etc for booty now though!   ;D

Not sure whether it will get started...but...    8)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Ithoriel on 16 July 2017, 02:51:14 AM
Hovels ( http://www.hovelsltd.co.uk ) have a 15mm scale Celtic Farm

(http://www.hovelsltd.co.uk/Ancient15/17d5.jpg)

As to troop types, if we're talking Late Neolithic/ Early Bronze Age Europe, then the Tollense battlefield (http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle) and Otzi the Iceman suggest troops that look something like this:

(http://www.sciencemag.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_main_large/public/warriors_03.png?itok=QXbzKPUA) 

Later on, the Urnfield Culture warriors would probably look like slightly odd Gauls/ Britons.

Not quite Conan!
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: FierceKitty on 16 July 2017, 02:55:47 AM
I wonder if they'd have been that well-fed?
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Ithoriel on 16 July 2017, 03:01:56 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 16 July 2017, 02:55:47 AM
I wonder if they'd have been that well-fed?

They certainly seem to have been pretty robustly built. The problems that come with urbanisation and a greater dependence on farming compared with hunting and gathering were still ahead of them.

Reconstruction of Otzi from his remains is

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Oetzi_the_Iceman_Rekonstruktion_1.jpg/337px-Oetzi_the_Iceman_Rekonstruktion_1.jpg)

Not Conan material but not a 7 stone weakling either.
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Techno on 16 July 2017, 09:14:52 AM
Don't even think about it, Nobby ! :P

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 16 July 2017, 11:15:02 AM
Ow! I think Ibit throughmylip. 
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Techno on 16 July 2017, 11:28:49 AM
You OIK !!!!

The sad thing is......There are certain parts of his 'frame' that are far too similar to yours truly, to be comfortable.

His hands and fingers are FAR too big, though...and his biceps.

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 16 July 2017, 11:51:09 AM
He's got your hairy legs though.  :D


To re-rail the thread, it's an interesting project. 
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 16 July 2017, 11:52:45 AM
Quote from: Techno on 16 July 2017, 11:28:49 AM
His hands and fingers are FAR too big, though...

Cheers - Phil

Yeah, well, we all know the reason for that  X_X

;)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 16 July 2017, 11:57:38 AM
Quote from: fsn on 16 July 2017, 11:51:09 AM
To re-rail the thread, it's an interesting project. 

Ditto!

AI11, Ancient Indian Forest Tribesmen (possibly with the headdresses clipped) might be useful: I bought some to use as hyperborean Picts.

Cheers!

Meirion
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 16 July 2017, 12:44:20 PM
Great idea for this project! :)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Ithoriel on 16 July 2017, 12:54:18 PM
Quote from: O Dinas Powys on 16 July 2017, 11:57:38 AM
AI11, Ancient Indian Forest Tribesmen (possibly with the headdresses clipped) might be useful: I bought some to use as hyperborean Picts.

Quote from: mad lemmey on 16 July 2017, 12:44:20 PM
Great idea for this project! :)

Actually, my first thought was to use the Pict range painting the clothing a mix  of browns, creams, greys, black and white to represent animal skins and the natural dyes used for textiles.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8a/4d/25/8a4d25caafecd4d35746abae89cb5f15--viking-garb-viking-tunic.jpg)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 16 July 2017, 06:40:15 PM
Bit of texturing for the fur, perhaps?
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 16 July 2017, 07:52:33 PM
Yay, and my Picts get more sales! ;)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Heedless Horseman on 16 July 2017, 10:33:49 PM
Thank guys.
Ithoriel: the village would be great, but far larger than what I am envisioning. Old Glory have a stone walled settlement, (not currently available), but it looks a bit Southern European for me. Sure I've seen something similar somewhere.
Yep, the clothing should be more like the illustrations...although the artist impressions look a bit more ragged than I think most folk would wear in practice...even if it was warmer!  ;)  They had a long time to perfect needlecraft and tailoring...think 'Buckskins'.
That battlefield report was what started me thinking about the project. Pre Celtic Europe has often been depicted as a pastoral idyll. I've always doubted it...people don't change much.   :(  More like Indian tribes in the U.S, I think...but with the odd bronze sword/dagger/axe/spearhead in the mix!   :)

Ancient Indians aren't bad...but I just can't get away with the running flat out pose in any period! lol.
Pict spearmen very nice...(no shields!)...but I would want more variety for a skirmish. Excellent for sentries or herd/caravan guards.
I may start with the Barbarians though. I am curious about whether I can cut and file the weapons down to approximate real stuff from the period. I can just ignore the hairy diapers and wellies!   ;D
There are several sling/bow figs who might do...Hah! I'd forgotten entirely about slingers!  ;D
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: O Dinas Powys on 16 July 2017, 10:54:31 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 16 July 2017, 12:54:18 PM
Actually, my first thought was to use the Pict range painting the clothing a mix  of browns, creams, greys, black and white to represent animal skins and the natural dyes used for textiles.

Good call  :-bd

Lemmey hadn't splashed the cash when I bought the ancient Indians - and Howard's Picts are more akin to Native Americans than ancient Scots in style anyway (what with living in a jungle and using tomahawks! ;) )

Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 16 July 2017, 10:33:49 PM
Ancient Indians aren't bad...but I just can't get away with the running flat out pose in any period! lol.

Fair enough - ;)
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 17 July 2017, 07:42:10 AM
I wonder when the first started using dyes. Anybody know?
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Ithoriel on 17 July 2017, 08:29:20 AM
Quote from: fsn on 17 July 2017, 07:42:10 AM
I wonder when the first started using dyes. Anybody know?

Wondered that myself when I started my obsession with interest in things Sumerian.

Earliest currently known to archaeology is around 30,000-35,000 years ago, from a cave in Georgia (No, not the US state, the former Soviet Republic!)

Far more extensive evidence is found at Çatalhöyük in Turkey, which existed from c.7500BCE to c.5700BCE, ten thousand years or so ago.

Northern European Bronze Age starts around 2100-ishBCE or just over four thousand years ago.    
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 17 July 2017, 12:24:59 PM
Well there you go. Thanks Ithoriel.

You could give your headman/hero some coloured clothes to make his stand out.
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Westmarcher on 17 July 2017, 01:13:48 PM
Quote from: fsn on 16 July 2017, 11:51:09 AM
He's got your hairy legs though.  :D

;D ;D ;D

Quote from: fsn on 17 July 2017, 12:24:59 PM
You could give your headman/hero some coloured clothes to make his stand out.

His what?   :-/
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: fsn on 17 July 2017, 05:32:08 PM
Well if you don't know that much about North European Bronze Age heroes, I'm not going to help you.  :>
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Techno on 17 July 2017, 05:35:03 PM
Is the answer clothes ?

Or did Nobby done a trypo. :D

Cheers - Phil.
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: abikapi2 on 30 July 2017, 05:38:36 PM
Does a Fresco from Pylos depict bronze age European warriors?

Stefano
Title: Re: North European Bronze age
Post by: Ithoriel on 30 July 2017, 10:29:28 PM
Quote from: abikapi2 on 30 July 2017, 05:38:36 PM
Does a Fresco from Pylos depict bronze age European warriors?

Stefano

The fresco that this reconstruction is of appears to be from c1350BCE and is usually interpreted as warriors from Pylos (in boar's tusk helmets) dealing with local bandits or raiders.

The Northern European Bronze Age is normally dated from around 1200BCE, so around a century and a half later.