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Wider Wargaming => Rules => Topic started by: Gazza on 03 July 2017, 11:47:20 AM

Title: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 03 July 2017, 11:47:20 AM
Over the last year-or-so and largely for my own amusement I have been developing a set of rules for, as the subject title intimates, company-level WWII actions. I initially intended these to be purely "house rules", but friends who have played and enjoyed them reckon that they might appeal to a wider audience. I am not convinced, but thought that asking in this august forum for interested parties to test and critique "Forward Command" - or ForC - could do no harm. The only caveat is that I currently game Europe 1939-40 so all the army lists I have drawn up are for that period and theatre. Still, it should not prove onerous to substitute, for instance, Tiger IIs for Panzer Is  ;) in order to try them out! I have provided links below to the rules themselves (still rough, but legible) and several army lists. One of my goals was that the rules should not be more than four pages long, which, despite the work I know the current iteration requires, I have managed to adhere to. I look forward to any comments and queries!

 Forward Command Rules (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shA-MalKp62rw_bt-)

 BEF Army List (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shA5_-cuCKPMtYHGU)

 German Army List (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shBBGzKqYGKsutvJX)
 
 Dutch Army List (http://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shBVEVa6QlbzfsZcg)

 Belgian Army List (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shBTl0O71HpRwJevd)

THE FRENCH AND POLISH ARMY LIST NEED SOME EDITING, BUT SHOULD BE UP SHORTLY.

Also, regarding the Tiers of HQs, I would recommend that Germans generally have Tier A, regulars from other nations Tier B and reservists Tier C. The intention is to include this information within the individual lists when I have time. Note that this not because I am some German fetishist, but just because at this point in the war German training and communications were far superior to most of their opponents. In 1940 both the French and British possessed better armed and armoured tanks than the Germans, but the Germans were able to circumvent this deficiency by employing superior tactics and use of radios.

Note: in the Army Lists Charge = Assault.

Hmm, that's all for now.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 03 July 2017, 01:36:53 PM
Downloaded, on a first skim it looks pretty straightforward.

Don't have suitable figures so will have to try and inveigle a couple of friends who do into playing!
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 03 July 2017, 01:59:21 PM
Hello
I think I'll give a try (solo) as soon as you can upload a french list.
It sounds interesting !
Thanks !

( although "All measurements given are in good old British Imperial  inches. " ... :o    mumble, mumble... XXIst century .... mumble mumble ... )  :P
;)
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 03 July 2017, 02:42:52 PM
Quote from: ronan on 03 July 2017, 01:59:21 PM
Hello
I think I'll give a try (solo) as soon as you can upload a french list.
It sounds interesting !
Thanks !

Right, the French lists is done (well, provisionally - as with all of 'em): French Army List (https://1drv.ms/b/s!AjKtlEqKDf0shBbwipJ9lj_IYsZs)

If you have any questions then please message me or post here. I have tried to research each army as fully as I am able, but I am sure there will be countless errors. I must point out, though, that the rules are not really for rivet-counters and I have bracketed speeds, armour etc as much as possible.

As to measurements...no cms please, we're British  :P
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 03 July 2017, 03:30:12 PM
Quote from: Gazza on 03 July 2017, 02:42:52 PM
As to measurements...no cms please, we're British  :P

Too late, already done a conversion. Not sure I have anything in the house with which to measure distances in inches.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 03 July 2017, 04:36:12 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 03 July 2017, 03:30:12 PM
Too late, already done a conversion. Not sure I have anything in the house with which to measure distances in inches.

Don't tell Gazza, but I often (almost always) use 2cm for 1 inch : 
- it's easy to convert
- it looks good (for 10mm figs in Chain of Command for example)
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/emoticon-happy-making-silence-sign-illustration-white-background-60517980.jpg)

;)


Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 03 July 2017, 05:41:19 PM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 03 July 2017, 03:30:12 PM
Not sure I have anything in the house with which to measure distances in inches.

I carry a handy 10" measuring stick in my trousers, although I must confess that using it has got me barred from many a club and even the police called on me when I produced it at the local GW store.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 04 July 2017, 02:14:20 PM
Hello

I had my small solo game last evening (but I was not able to play till the end).
I wrote a short AAR here http://2d6.fr/?p=4290 (http://2d6.fr/?p=4290) if you find it interesting.
(http://2d6.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ForCo_solo_20170703_07.jpg)
( yes I did not use bases )

I found it works and does the job ! Thanks !
It's easy to play without exhausting my brain ! ( I was tired and I could play !  :) )
It's strange when the passive player can't react, fire etc. But while playing I understood it was not that necessary, due to the scale I believe.

One thing I didin't like : It's possible (and easy) to recover every DS and get back in full strength..  :-

I used 8'' moves for the motos.
And add the "R" to the german sdkfz 221


Some small points ( IMHO)
- some minor errors in the text ( I know it's a draft / personnal document  ;) ) Let me know if you want my notes.
- No bonus for road movement ? ( or may be I missed it)
- The french B1b is too fast for my taste

Once again : Thank you !
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 04 July 2017, 03:47:11 PM
That was damnably quick, Ronan. Thank you for trying out the rules and particularly for taking the time to write a batrep (even if you couldn't finish the game!).

I will attempt to answer your queries:

QuoteOne thing I didin't like : It's possible (and easy) to recover every DS and get back in full strength..  :-

Regrouping (ie. recovering from DS). I wanted damage to represent the psychological effect of being under fire as much or even more than the physical, so DS don't necessarily represent deaths or even casualties. Also, after a few games you will find that quite often you don't have enough CPs to fully recover Units with DS, so often they
will be acting with the penalties associated with whichever DS they are on (ie. they are less effective).

Quote- some minor errors in the text ( I know it's a draft / personnal document  Wink ) Let me know if you want my notes.

The text is a bit of a mess! Since putting it up yesterday I have made some changes, but any notes you may have would be much appreciated!

Quote- No bonus for road movement ? ( or may be I missed it)

Good point! Perhaps road movement should plus 1/2 a vehicles' usual speed rounding down.

Quote- The french B1b is too fast for my taste

Just checked that out. According to my research the Char B1 was actually a little bit quicker than the Renault R35/40. Definitely nipper than the Renault FT or British Infantry Tank Mk.I. I have tried to bracket speeds a bit... It is difficult because some of these early war tanks performed atrociously off-road, yet where fine on-road.

QuoteAnd add the "R" to the german sdkfz 221

All armoured cars should have the 'Reconnaissance' ('R') rule. This was another oversight on my behalf.

*****************

I hope these have answered your questions. If you have issue with any of them or want to know anything else then please ask. I'd very much like to see a another batrep too!

I am also toying with the idea of making Assaults more deadly. If you have any reactions regarding this, please let me know.

Edit: I will have to stat up some R75s for the Aufklärungs-Abteilungs. 8" speed would be spot-on! From all I have read they were usually the first thing the Allied soldiers saw of German ground forces.  
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 05 July 2017, 09:11:44 AM
Changes to Assault rules (previously 'Charge'):

Assaults are conducted in the same manner as before, except that the difference between winning and losing scores is used to calculate the amount of DS the losing Unit receives. So if one sides score '5' and the other scores '3', the latter receives 2xDS. This makes Assaults much quicker and more deadly, which is probably closer to the reality. In cases where one Unit is outnumbered, the outnumbering side elects a Unit to lead the Assault, the other friendly Units each gift the leading Unit +1. Note that these supporting Units must be activated in the normal manner (issued an Assault Order) to do this.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 05 July 2017, 11:22:11 AM
Hello Gazza
I sent you a private message with some notes.

I noticed here the changes you made ( I may have a game in the next days..) Thanks

For the speed of some vehicles, I understand the difficulty..

For the recovery, of course I will play more before changing anything  ;)
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 07 July 2017, 02:12:22 PM
Ronan - Great batrep, thanks for posting buddy!  I look forward to more.

Gareth - I downloaded and read the rules last night; pretty straightforward and easy to read, I love the brevity!  Some quick questions (and forgive me if I screw up, I don't have the rules in front of me right now so I'm going off memory):

1.  Is this a correct statement: a CHQ or PHQ that is suppressed can generate only 1 CP and must use it to regroup?

2.  Regarding command points and actions, I like the chart that shows allowable actions, so that you've got move-fire/fire-move etc...   But I want to make sure I understand: is it 1 CP to move-fire, or one CP to move and one to fire?

3.  Coming off question #2, if the answer was two CPs to move and fire, is there a limit to how many CPs a unit can use in a single turn (going off the chart, it seems like 2 CPs, but I want to make sure I've got it right).

4.  CHQs can't give orders to anyone, just pass them to PHQs?

5.  Aside from the target prioritization guidelines (must engage enemy units within 5") is there anything else that keeps the enemy from sitting back and shooting up your CHQ and PHQs?

6.  How big a table do you foresee using for these fights?  When I saw that infantry only moves 3" (and can lose some of that from terrain effects) and vehicles are usually ~6", that doesn't seem like much, particularly if you're losing distance to terrain effects.

Sorry to bother you about these, but I'm interested and would love to help you out by test playing a game or three.  But I'm not quick as Ronan, it's going to be a minute: this weekend I've got two Ambush Alley games planned, and the following weekend I need to finish up my "Phantoms Over Havana."  And I've got to figure out what troops/setting I'd use these for (as always, I've got to fold them into one of my ongoing projects/campaigns).

Thanks for posting the rules Gareth, good stuff!

V/R,
Jack
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 08 July 2017, 11:04:33 AM
Hello Jack, thanks for taking the time to read over my scribblings and fielding some pertinent questions. I should have a batrep up on my blog before the weekend's out, which will hopefully make thing clearer. On to your questions:

1. If a HQ is suppressed it may only issue one Order that turn. If they have generated more Orders during the Command Phase these are lost. The Order can be whatever the player likes, but a Regroup Order is probably the most sensible course.

2. You can issue as many Regroup Orders as you have CPs to do so. Each action is 1CP. So Fire=1CP, Move=1CP, Dash (move twice)=2CPs etc.

3. Interestingly, an earlier version of the rules had Units limited to either 1, 2 or 3 Orders per turn, depending on their quality. However, I decided that this was better represented by giving HQs different Tiers, with the higher Tiers likely to generate more CPs. However, you can only Fire or Assault once per turn, move twice (but not then Fire or Assault) or move then Assault or Fire (or Fire and Move). As I said in 2. Regroup Orders can be issued as many times as you are able. After a game-or-two you will see that this means some turns are spent redressing your battle line and not much else! I wonder, though, if a maximum number of Orders might be set? So perhaps no more than four per turn? Something to ponder...

4. Again, in the older version CHQs could issue Orders directly to Units, regardless of range. Do you think it makes sense to bring this back? Let me know after you've played a game!

5. You will find that in game you tend to keep your CHQ right at the back and PHQs behind their sections. Given that HQs are weak at Firing, your opponent will tend to prioritise the more deadly Rifle Sections and any Supporting elements. I have seen no deliberate targeting of HQs in the games I have played (including the ones against real people!).

6. I use a roughly 4'X3 1/2' table. Originally Speeds wre much higher, but I found the battle was raging by turn 2. The lower Speeds allow for more maneuvering. An average game last about eight turns and can be done in under two hours (that's stopping about three times to make tea).

With all these answers I am entirely open to suggestions on how you think things might be improved. I will add, however, that the one overriding criteria I have for ForC is simplicity - I am trying to avoid making them too complicated, which is something I know you appreciate in a rule-set! I am very excited at the thought of seeing some batreps from you in the future using ForC and am happy to answer any further questions.

Regards

Gareth
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 08 July 2017, 02:49:41 PM
Gareth,

Excellent, thanks for the quick responses!  That all sounds good, I think I've got it.  Regarding units receiving orders, it's a little wordy, but I think I've got it: a unit can fire once, move twice, regroup as many times as you'd like.  But it's definitely going to be self limiting as you only have so many CPs in any case, and I can see how you might spend an entire turn doing nothing but 'rallying' the troops back into the fight.  But I really enjoy those types of (limiting) command mechanisms with regards to tactical decision making: do I turn over the initiative to the enemy in order to get my all my units back in fighting shape, or do I keep pushing with what I have, though we're becoming worn down and strung out? 

These look great, and I can't wait to get to them, just have to go in project order ;)  And I'm really looking forward to your batreps!

V/R,
Jack

Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 08 July 2017, 06:13:09 PM
Quote from: bigjackmac on 08 July 2017, 02:49:41 PM
...I can see how you might spend an entire turn doing nothing but 'rallying' the troops back into the fight.  But I really enjoy those types of (limiting) command mechanisms with regards to tactical decision making: do I turn over the initiative to the enemy in order to get my all my units back in fighting shape, or do I keep pushing with what I have, though we're becoming worn down and strung out?  

That's it! In the batrep I'm writing up now, during turn 3 the Germans got quite badly mauled and spent most of their CPs regrouping, before resuming the advance in turn 4. I prefer these kind of rules - I'm more interested in the "friction" of battle than the hardware and whether this gun has a greater range than that gun.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 08 July 2017, 10:19:46 PM
We tried a small 3-player game this afternoon.

AAR

Nominally set in 1940 somewhere just outside Dunkirk.

1800mm x 1200mm table, playing up and down the length of it.

One short edge was lined with houses, gardens and assorted bits & bobs to represent a village on the outskirts of Dunkirk.

In the middle of the table was a large farmhouse with a walled garden, attached orchards, outhouses and the like.

The rest of the table had a liberal scatter of hillocks, copses, hedges, walls, a stream and other items to break up line of sight and to provide cover.

The Germans had a Wehrmacht company and two MG34s set up in the middle of the table.

The Brits had a Territorial company and two Vickers guns in the village and a Regular platoon set up on the other edge.

The Territorials set up first, then the Germans, then the Regulars.

The Germans scored a point for every Regular unit destroyed, the Brits one point for every Regular unit that reached the village.

The Germans could not win the scenario if they lost control of the farm.

Relying on their superior troops the Germans set up with one platoon and the MGs facing the Territorials and two facing the Regulars.

In a wonderful display of fire and movement (and considerably better die rolling!!) the Territorials poured fire into the Germans facing them with such accuracy and ferocity that the Germans spent almost all of their command rolls rallying troops until it became obvious to them that they were unable to keep up with the losses incurred. Two further rounds of firing but not rallying saw both MGs and the platoon of infantry wiped out.

The second German platoon and CHQ, which had switched direction as the deteriorating situation became apparent, arrived just in time to suffer the same fate as the first, facing a British force snugly ensconced in the farmhouse and walled garden.

The German third platoon, which had engaged the Regulars in a repeated sequence of Brits shoot, Germans shoot, Brits rally, Germans rally wisely decided that a strategic "advance on Berlin" was in order and the game ended in a resounding British victory.

THOUGHTS

All three of us enjoyed the game ... even the bloke controlling the Germans - a good sign for any set of rules.

We found it easy to grasp the rules and rarely needed to check anything.

The game was not only enjoyable but seemed reasonably realistic.

We thought it might work well as a participation game at a show.

Much as we had fun, it's probably not going to replace Chain of Command as our rules of choice for that size of action.

This is not the game for you if the "Dice Gods" hate you :)  
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 09 July 2017, 02:19:25 PM
Gareth - Sounds great, I can't read to see it.  I perused your blog a bit, you've got some great looking 10mm kit!

Ithoriel - Awesome!  I sure wish there some pics though ;)  And:

"This is not the game for you if the "Dice Gods" hate you."
Isn't that true of every game, though?  Anything in particular about this set?  I'm guessing maybe the rolls for Command Points?

V/R,
Jack
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 09 July 2017, 05:39:53 PM
Thank you very much for reporting back with your experiences, Ithoriel. Sounds like a real bloodbath for poor old Herman! As I said previously the rules as written are pretty rough and I shall try and whip them into a more concise and intelligible state over the coming week. Even so, it most gratifying to hear that you found it 'easy to grasp' and that you 'rarely needed to check anything' - the latter particularly is something I intended from the start.

One thing I haven't added to the army lists yet is what sort of Command Tiers should apply to certain Unit HQ types. I would say that BEF Territorials would have a CHQ at either Tier B or C and the PHQs at Tier C. I'd be most interested to know what you chaps plumped for in this scenario and also as regards the Germans and did you think it worked? Do you find the way in which CPs are generated and Orders issued straightforward and plausible? Also, you mentioned this not being a 'game for you if the "Dice Gods" hate you'. Is this just because of the German commander's poor rolling or do you feel that sometimes the dice can give too broad a range of outcomes?

I'm pleased you chaps enjoyed the experience and thanks again for your feedback!

Regards

Gareth
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 09 July 2017, 07:12:43 PM
For convenience (and because I have a couple of dice marked 1,1,2,2,3,3) all CHQs and PHQs were Tier B, we felt Tier C might generate too few points and slow the game. Actually for the Germans it would have made little difference because they rolled mainly 1s!

All infantry platoons were PHQ and 3 sections. MGs were two MGs and a PHQ. There was one German CHQ and two British CHQs, one per force.

The Germans had relied on their central position to shift forces to meet the British moves but with few orders available they wound up using most of them to keep troops alive.

Further thoughts:

The table was too big. 1200mm square would have been more than enough with the 15mm scale troops were were using.

We came up with an ad hoc target priority rule to allow for the fact that the Germans had no rear area to hide the CHQ in.

1. Closest enemy unit
2. Enemy unit that fired on the unit in the previous turn
3. Unit in lowest rated cover

If two or more units meet condition 1 then choose the one that meets condition 2 and so on. If tied on all 3 owning player chooses who to shoot at.

Gareth/ Jack no dice based game rules could survive Norm's luck yesterday!! :D
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 10 July 2017, 11:19:32 AM
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 July 2017, 07:12:43 PM
The table was too big. 1200mm square would have been more than enough with the 15mm scale troops were were using.

For an infantry-only game that makes sense. If you use AFVs a larger table is a must!

Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 July 2017, 07:12:43 PMWe came up with an ad hoc target priority rule to allow for the fact that the Germans had no rear area to hide the CHQ in.

1. Closest enemy unit
2. Enemy unit that fired on the unit in the previous turn
3. Unit in lowest rated cover

If two or more units meet condition 1 then choose the one that meets condition 2 and so on. If tied on all 3 owning player chooses who to shoot at.

That's interesting. I might well incorporate it wholly or partly. Thanks for the insights!
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 10 July 2017, 05:37:04 PM
Battle report is now up on my blog:

https://we-stand-and-fight.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/forward-command-battle-report.html
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 11 July 2017, 09:08:30 PM
Stupendous!!!  I gave it a scan: looks great!  Great action, terrain, and minis!  I'll give it a deeper look this evening.

Thanks Gareth!

V/R,
Jack
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 12 July 2017, 05:31:55 AM
A good report and a good looking game

I was a little surprised to see the German infantry assaulting an armoured car in the open :-\
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 12 July 2017, 09:11:09 AM
Quote from: paulr on 12 July 2017, 05:31:55 AM
I was a little surprised to see the German infantry assaulting an armoured car in the open :-

Well, let's say they crept close enough to throw grenades and snipe at driving slits! In ForC armoured cars get +1 to Assaults and tanks get +2, so it is rather risky for infantry, but this is May 1940 so the Germans were pretty keyed up! Given the dearth of anti-tank weapons available to infantry at this time getting up-close-and-personal was often the only way of dealing with AFVs. Also, the main armament of the Morris CS9 was the Bren, so they were hardly bristling with automatic firepower. In retrospect they probably should have shot at it (most armoured cars can be shot at by small arms fire, with a -1 modifier) - far less risky! Actually, I've just seen an organisation chart which suggests that, like their BEF counterparts, the Germans had one anti-tank rifle per-platoon (either the Panzerbüchse 39 or Panzerbüchse 35 (polnisch)). Will have to updates the army list to reflect that.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 12 July 2017, 11:04:28 PM
Sounds like the rules give the player a sensible set of options, you took the most aggressive ;)
I like rules that allow players to take the risky choice

I have heard several stories of Boys getting 'lost' fairly early on a long march, the same probably happened to the Pzb  ;)
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 13 July 2017, 05:25:25 AM
Gareth,

First, sorry for the delay, but I'm on vacation with the family. But we're at the hotel, all showered up, and the kids are down, so finally got a chance to give it a good read.

Second, you're killing me! As much as I love posting my batreps, I like reading other folks' at least as much, so I'm not shy about requesting guys post batreps! ;)

Lastly, I loved it, and it looked like a roaring success with regards to play testing for realism AND fun.  The team I thought was going to win ended up winning, but not a sure thing and certainly not a walkover.  I wasn't bothered at all by the infantry close assault of the Lancers, I just figured they were focused on the German armored cars. And like Paul, I enjoy the full array of options being available to the player. And I'm with you: I think troops in 1940 didn't have much choice against armor of any sort.  Run or go get them.

At first I wasn't keen on armor receiving 'cumulative' damage (like infantry) when facing anti-armor weapons, but I think I'm there. I believe there will be folks that won't be able to get past that (which is fine, to each his own, we all draw our line on what expect/can put up with where we want), but I can see it as a combination of near misses and non-penetrating hits that are having morale effects (ergo the 'regroup' option to remove 'hits') and otherwise taking the crews' minds somewhere other than where the platoon/company commander wants them. The 4th 'hit' isn't conceptually the fourth time the vehicle was struck and then knocked out, it's just the vehicle suffering the effects of enemy fire, and the fourth is the round that actually puts the vehicle out of action.

Anyway, thanks for posting buddy, I enjoyed it and am looking forward to more.

V/R,
Jack
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: pierre the shy on 13 July 2017, 08:41:46 AM
Quote from: paulr on 12 July 2017, 11:04:28 PM
I have heard several stories of Boys getting 'lost' fairly early on a long march, the same probably happened to the Pzb  ;)

I could tell you a story about gettiing "lost" in the Tararuas some years ago while doing the Southern Crossing but I wasn't carrying a AT rifle (though my pack felt like I had the weight of a AT rifle in it after 2 days  ;) )

Anyway to get back on the track so to speak...

Very interesting set of rules Gazza.

Having read several books featuring company level actions in France by BEF units I'm rather tempted to add them to my (already far too long) to do list at some point in the near future, especially after reading your very well written 1940 batrep. 
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 13 July 2017, 09:39:05 AM
Oh good, now I can blame Pierre the Shy for introducing another ruleset to our group ;) ;D

I wasn't thinking about trying them, no, not at all O:-)
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 13 July 2017, 01:24:45 PM
Thanks for all the comments guys. As I keep saying, if you try 'em out let me know what you think!

Quote from: bigjackmac on 13 July 2017, 05:25:25 AM
At first I wasn't keen on armor receiving 'cumulative' damage (like infantry) when facing anti-armor weapons, but I think I'm there. I believe there will be folks that won't be able to get past that (which is fine, to each his own, we all draw our line on what expect/can put up with where we want), but I can see it as a combination of near misses and non-penetrating hits that are having morale effects (ergo the 'regroup' option to remove 'hits') and otherwise taking the crews' minds somewhere other than where the platoon/company commander wants them. The 4th 'hit' isn't conceptually the fourth time the vehicle was struck and then knocked out, it's just the vehicle suffering the effects of enemy fire, and the fourth is the round that actually puts the vehicle out of action.

Bear in mind too that the 25mm Hotchkiss was a pop-gun. Ordnance QF 2-pounders or 47 mm APX anti-tank guns will make mincemeat of most early way German armour (providing the controlling player rolls moderately well!). I have thought about adding an additional damage table for AFVs, but pooh-poohed it as deviating from the spirit of the game (ie. simplicity). Still, I am as ever open to suggestions. Enjoy the rest of your holiday.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 13 July 2017, 02:23:51 PM
The armour rules seem fine to me.

Crews can be stunned, shaken or lightly wounded and then recover. Vehicles can stall and be restarted, guns jam nad be cleared, vision blocks may need replaced and so on.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 13 July 2017, 08:20:33 PM
Seconded
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 14 July 2017, 09:10:31 AM
Well that seems fairly unanimous! For the time being the armour rules in relation to damage shall remain the same. I will sit down over the coming weeks and rewrite the rules to iron out any creases and generally make it intelligible.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 14 July 2017, 09:51:52 AM
Quote from: Gazza on 13 July 2017, 01:24:45 PM
(...) the spirit of the game (ie. simplicity)

+1 !
( I was able to test early, as you noticed, but now I had less spare time.)

Quote from: bigjackmac on 13 July 2017, 05:25:25 AM
(...)so I'm not shy about requesting guys post batreps! ;)
And you'right !  :)
;)
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: pierre the shy on 14 July 2017, 12:21:50 PM
I had a chance to read the rules a bit more throughly tonight - really like them.

Had a couple of design questions about HQ's Gazza:

Is the decision to make the CHQ itself fairly "passive" a deliberate one? OK it can defend itself and lend its CP's to PHQ's etc but it cannot not directly issue orders to its subunits.

Given that the CHQ is in overall command wouldn't you allow a CHQ unit to issue an general order directly one or more of its platoons (e.g. "10 Platoon defend that farm") once a turn (purhaps depending on what Tier level that the HQ is rated at) or am I too used to playing rules such as TFL's ITLSU with card driven activations that allow "early" activations of units by HQ units if their card comes up before the unit card itself does?

Have to fit in a small test game with PaulR seeing he is keen on the idea  ;)

               
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Ithoriel on 14 July 2017, 12:31:22 PM
I mooted the idea of CHQs being able to directly order any unit it was in base-to-base contact with.

The other two pointed out you could just allocate the order from the CHQ to the relevant PHQ and achieve the same thing.

I can't give an exact quote (partly due to my increasingly flaky memory and partly down to language unsuitable for the delicate sensibilities of this august forum :) ) but the gist of it was,"Don't tinker! It's a nice simple set of rules, stop trying to make my head hurt with complications!" :D

I would commend this attitude to you Gazza!
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 14 July 2017, 09:01:57 PM
Quote from: pierre the shy on 14 July 2017, 12:21:50 PM
Have to fit in a small test game with PaulR seeing he is keen on the idea  ;)       

I have Late war German and British infantry companies wondering what ruleset to use...

They were used with the original Flames of War rules to introduce my son to wargaming and some of his Grandfathers history
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: JeffNNN on 14 July 2017, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: Gazza on 14 July 2017, 09:10:31 AM
Well that seems fairly unanimous! For the time being the armour rules in relation to damage shall remain the same. I will sit down over the coming weeks and rewrite the rules to iron out any creases and generally make it intelligible.
[/quote
Sounds promising. I'd be interested in doing a play test with my local group (Crosby Wargamers), we've got plenty of both 15 and particularly 20mm figures.
Jeff
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: terry68 on 27 July 2017, 11:06:42 AM
Down loaded the rules and lists, they look to be just what I am looking for at Company level!
I have just started doing Late War British for Normandy, with Germans to do next!
I'll play test using just infantry, then add a few 'late war' tanks.

Looking Good, carry on that man!

Terry.
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 11 August 2017, 01:53:37 AM
Gareth,

What's the latest man?  I'm looking for more batreps ;)

And I'm still working on clearing out my backlog so I can get to these, though I did get a bit sidetracked by International Naval Wargames Day  :-[ :-[ :-[

V/R,
Jack
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 11 August 2017, 07:15:01 PM
Quote from: bigjackmac on 11 August 2017, 01:53:37 AM
What's the latest man?  I'm looking for more batreps ;)

I redid my terrain boards last week so have been without a playing area for a while and I have re-started a WWI project I abandoned several years ago, which had destracted me somewhat. However, I have an operation on Monday (nothing serious - repair of an inguinal hernia) and should have plenty of free time to devote to such things in the coming week. Watch this space!
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: paulr on 11 August 2017, 09:10:16 PM
I hope the op goes well and you have a speedy recovery, with plenty of time for gaming
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Duke Speedy of Leighton on 11 August 2017, 10:34:06 PM
Speedy recovery
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 14 August 2017, 12:35:56 AM
Gareth,

Well, here's to hoping there no complications, and a speedy recover!

In any case, I can't wait to see you refurbished terrain boards, and of course, some batreps ;)  I'm working my tail off to get caught up on other projects, but I'm getting closer to getting Forward Command on the table, Jack-style ;)

Take care man!

V/R,
Jack

Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: ronan on 14 August 2017, 06:18:45 PM
I agree with Jack !

Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Gazza on 17 August 2017, 12:09:39 PM
Thanks for your kind words chaps! The op seems to have gone well, although I can do without my testicles swelling up to twice their normal size and turning black! As such no gaming has been managed, although I have got some painting done. I think that most of this week shall consist of me sitting gingerly on the sofa, either reading or watching television. Watched 'Bridge of Spies' the other day, which I can highly recommend, and finished 'The Honourable Schoolboy' this morning, which is possibly one of le Carre's best books in terms of prose and contained a spectacularly tragic/futile ending. Yup, I'm in Cold War Warrior mode for some reason... Might swap the ibuprofen for vodka  ;)

Regarding ForC, I have had an idea about who goes first each turn. As written the side with better quality ('Tier') HQs are generally going to generate* more CPs and thus go first most of the time, which is rather predictable. Just to shake things up a bit, how about the Player with an even amount of CPs goes first. If both players roll up an even no. of CPs, then it goes to amount. What do you think? Also, I promise to try and get the rules drafted into a more palatable state over the next week.

Again thanks for your concern!


*How's that for alliteration!
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Smoking gun on 17 August 2017, 08:26:51 PM
Quote from: Gazza on 17 August 2017, 12:09:39 PM
Thanks for your kind words chaps! The op seems to have gone well, although I can do without my testicles swelling up to twice their normal size and turning black!


*How's that for alliteration!

Have you seen a doctor as this could be a sign of internal bleeding?

It's not unuaual and happened to me.

I hope you feel better soon.

Regards,

Martin
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: Techno on 18 August 2017, 07:23:10 AM
Hope you feel better soon, too, Gazza.

Think I pulled something 'down there' the other night when dragging a dead sheep across the field....and it had been partially eaten, overnight, so it wasn't as heavy as the last one.
At least the chap collecting the dead pony today will have a winch on his trailer.  :(

Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Forward Command - Company Level WWII Rules (Playtesters Sought!)
Post by: bigjackmac on 15 September 2017, 03:08:23 PM
Are you okay buddy?

V/R,
Jack