Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Painting & Modelling => Topic started by: Aughrim1691 on 27 June 2017, 07:00:40 PM



Title: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Aughrim1691 on 27 June 2017, 07:00:40 PM
Being new to both the forum and to 10mm figures in general I am writing this in the hope that somebody can give me some advice.
I have previously painted 18mm to 28mm figures. My method of painting is to block paint the figures and then use the Army Painter products to shade them. This has worked so far, but with the 10mm figures it reduces them to a very dark figure, the colours not coming through.
 In short my question is with this style of painting what, if anything, would both give depth to the figures but at the same time retain the brightness of the painting. Your views and help would be greatly appreciated.


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: mad lemmey on 27 June 2017, 08:05:42 PM
Paint a shade or two lighter than you normally would, then use very diluted armypainter or highlight after washes.


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: jimduncanuk on 27 June 2017, 08:15:43 PM
Block paint the figures and then sparingly highlight the figures.

Don't ink them.

Use colours a shade or two lighter than you would use on bigger figures.


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Fenton on 27 June 2017, 09:13:01 PM
I block paint the figures then wash in W&N nut brown


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Terry37 on 27 June 2017, 10:47:14 PM
I block paint mine, and then hit them with a weak/very thinned Vallejo wash. When that dries I highlight with a wet dry wash of a brighter shade. So far I have been pleased with the results.

Terry


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: paulr on 27 June 2017, 11:21:48 PM
Welcome to the forum Aughrim1691 :-h

As others have said paint several shades lighter than you would on larger figures.

The smallerr areas appear darker to the eye so you need to lighten them so they will look right

I use a thin black wash on most of my figures so tend to paint lighter still, allowing for the darkening from the wash

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t197/paulreynolds999/ITLSU%20France%201914/IMG_2349_zpsw1scjpqb.jpg)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Techno on 28 June 2017, 07:28:08 AM
Welcome from me, too !  :-h

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Leman on 28 June 2017, 07:48:49 AM
I am using a black undercoat which I then dry brush with white to bring out the detail. I then paint a highlight colour rather than the basic colour and try to leave recesses with black in them. I have tried many other styles over the years. The other successful one has been to prime in white, block paint the figure and then use a brown magic wash (see Fat Wally's web site  fat-wally.com). At the top of his menu , in red, is his painting service. Click on that and you can then access his magic wash recipe. I most frequently use a brown ink rather than black ink version, as this stops the figures becoming too dark. The magic wash also provides another layer of protection, as I apply it after applying a coat of Vallejo satin varnish.

These 6mm figures were done using the magic wash system:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/BBB%206mm%20armies/IMG_1572_zpslfyrrjfn.jpg)


These 10mm using black undercoat and highlight:

(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/IMG_1594_zps7nig8rje.jpg)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Glorfindel on 28 June 2017, 09:19:35 AM
Another option is to undercoat in white and then apply a dark wash
(I use 'Badab Black').   This really brings out the detail, adds a black
line effect and also provides brighter colours that can be dulled by a
black u/c.


Phil


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Zippee on 28 June 2017, 11:35:31 AM
I undercoat white

Then block paint - a shade lighter than you'd think.

Wash with coat d'arms shader black

Highlight all major areas with a bright/light colour - lighter than you'd think.

Never paint black, black - paint it dark grey and highlight. likewise never paint white, white, paint it light grey and highlight white

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7611/26832139821_028e61d78b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GT4Jmn)French Legere 1809 - 10th Regiment, Battalion III 03 (https://flic.kr/p/GT4Jmn) by Zippee Jerred (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7713/27031221585_cb0bd64b63_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HbE5qz)Austrian Chevaux Leger 1809 - 5th Klenau Regiment 03 (https://flic.kr/p/HbE5qz) by Zippee Jerred (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7413/26757443030_bc9936c21e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GLsTAE)Austrian Landwehr 1809 - Manhartsberg 2nd Battalion 01 (https://flic.kr/p/GLsTAE) by Zippee Jerred (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4182/34389198561_e354d83584_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/UoRCCz)DR01 - Ralph Appleton's Dragoons - 02 (https://flic.kr/p/UoRCCz) by Zippee Jerred (https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/), on Flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippee/albums/with/72157680353106664


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Sunray on 28 June 2017, 02:56:10 PM
What a festival of eye candy.   :)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Techno on 28 June 2017, 07:05:11 PM
Cor....Those are a bit good ! :-bd

Cheers - Phil


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Aughrim1691 on 29 June 2017, 03:19:29 PM
Thank you to everyone that replied with advice.
It looks like there are various ways to achieve a shaded result without turning the figures into an unrecognisable blob.
I'm now going to have to start experimenting!


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: toxicpixie on 29 June 2017, 04:13:47 PM
If using a wash as "heavy" as Army Painter (e.g. their own stain or any of the various "magic" or B&Q-tastic replacements) I'd go with white undercoat and a very bright version of the base colour!

I've done a few units like that and it works - specifically some LoA range cuirassiers and grenadiers, as "quick paint" tests. They're not amazing, but they were quick and acceptable. I can see it being exceptionally easy to bugger up and end up with dark blobs, mind, so I'm not sure it's something I'd be very comfortable for other peoples figures or anything I was really feeling desperate for quality on :)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Zippee on 29 June 2017, 05:36:17 PM
If using a wash as "heavy" as Army Painter (e.g. their own stain or any of the various "magic" or B&Q-tastic replacements) I'd go with white undercoat and a very bright version of the base colour!

I've done a few units like that and it works - specifically some LoA range cuirassiers and grenadiers, as "quick paint" tests. They're not amazing, but they were quick and acceptable. I can see it being exceptionally easy to bugger up and end up with dark blobs, mind, so I'm not sure it's something I'd be very comfortable for other peoples figures or anything I was really feeling desperate for quality on :)

Agreed the Army Painter style shades are too dense for 10mm - too dense for 15mm IMO as well.

You need a fine light wash - GW Badab/Devlan and replacements worked well as does CdA Black (although the brown is too ruddy for my tastes). I've had limited success with Vallejo but it is a bit sticky and has a tendency to gloop up and pool badly.


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Terry37 on 29 June 2017, 05:59:17 PM
I have found most, if not all inks or washes are too heavy out of the bottle. I use an acrylic extender to thin my washes. The thinner I want it, the more extender I add. The extender serves two purposes. First it thins the wash and second it slows the drying time to allow the wash to settle into the figure better. True I have to usually wait over night before I can do any highlights, but it's worth it to me.

I do not use a wash on dark blues, dark grays or dark browns as it just turns them black. Those I shade by hand.

Terry


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Fenton on 29 June 2017, 06:05:59 PM
I have used AP dip on 10mm but I do thin it down first

They do need another Matt varnish spray

(http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt334/SteveW_04/IMG_20160514_183441.jpg) (http://s625.photobucket.com/user/SteveW_04/media/IMG_20160514_183441.jpg.html)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Subedai on 29 June 2017, 08:12:48 PM
Black with block colour then a single highlight or in some cases a drybrush -feathers etc- brown magic wash then varnish. Job done.

MickS



Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Leman on 30 June 2017, 09:12:13 AM
Ok, I know the Peter Pig forum deals mainly with 15mm figures, but one of the members,  who goes under the moniker of Lurkio, has produced some very good painting guides for WWI figures. Click on the Square Bashing bit and this will bring up the site with its child boards. Click on the child board labelled Tutorials.


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Glorfindel on 30 June 2017, 12:10:53 PM
>>Another option is to undercoat in white and then apply a dark wash
>>(I use 'Badab Black').   This really brings out the detail, adds a black
>>line effect and also provides brighter colours that can be dulled by a
>>black u/c.

Here are a few examples using War of the Spanish Succession figures to give
you an idea.   I think this approach works particularly well for the Horse &
Musket era when a lot of Regiments wore light grey :

(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20War%20of%20the%20Spanish%20Succession/IMG_2881_zps74bpieeb.jpg)

(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20War%20of%20the%20Spanish%20Succession/IMG_2882_zpskmawmssd.jpg)

(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20War%20of%20the%20Spanish%20Succession/IMG_2883_zpsj1x9padz.jpg)

(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20War%20of%20the%20Spanish%20Succession/IMG_2886_zpskasndxe8.jpg)



Phil


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: toxicpixie on 30 June 2017, 01:24:23 PM
They pop very nicely! Is that a white under coat then just a black wash for the "grey" units?


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Glorfindel on 30 June 2017, 03:02:59 PM
>>They pop very nicely! Is that a white under coat then just a black wash for the "grey" units?

I used the same method for all of these figures - white undercoat followed by black wash.
This automatically provides the colour for the dark recesses / edges and the rest of the figure is
then painted as normal.   The difference is that you can actually see the detail (compared with a
black u/c) and it leaves colours so much brighter.   It was an expirement to start with but I'm
really happy with the results. 



Phil


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: toxicpixie on 30 June 2017, 03:04:22 PM
Good stuff! I especially like the blue, that pops really nicely :)


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Terry37 on 30 June 2017, 11:01:36 PM
Phil, I too like the look of your figures. And for that time period you really want the colors to show and you have succeeded!

Terry


Title: Re: Painting and shading advice
Post by: Womble67 on 01 July 2017, 12:47:15 AM
Some good advice in this topic. I mainly prime in white then block paint wash highlight. But im also happy  priming in black and block painting and highlighting.

Take care

Andy